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I'd say the rise of white nationalism is pretty meaningful and its impact on this administration (and foreign policy) has had significant consequences.

microcolonel 7y ago
> I'd say the rise of white nationalism is pretty meaningful and its impact on this administration (and foreign policy) has had significant consequences. Like what? Edit: no really, I'd like to know what you mean by this. As far as I can tell, white nationalists make up an extreme minority voting bloc, and are explicitly denounced and distanced from the current administration. I have absolutely no idea what foreign policy decisions "oshitsdom" is referring to, which have supposedly been influenced by a "rise of white nationalism". That would be a very serious event, and I genuinely want to know if there's some legitimate way of squinting at our shared reality which could give that impression. Edit 2 because I'm rate limited: This is not a rhetorical question, except that nobody has answered honestly. It is a question that is answerable. To form it more explicitly: "Name an example of a consequential foreign policy decision of the current administration which is white nationalist in nature (invokes a desire to create a state where citizenship is contingent on having white skin), and which has clearly been influenced the a cultural force of a 'rise of white nationalism'."
- enraged_camel 7y ago
  >>As far as I can tell, white nationalists make up an extreme minority voting bloc, and are explicitly denounced and distanced from the current administration. You are very wrong about the latter part. Trump's response to Charlottesville was so bad that the phrase "both sides" became a meme. To this day, he continues to downplay the problem.
  - microcolonel 7y ago
    Sure, if you make every possible bad faith effort to misinterpret and obscure what somebody is saying, you'll come away with lots of spicy memes to share with your friends while you're busy agreeing with eachother. That doesn't so much mean you've made a sober assessment of the facts. Also that is not foreign policy.
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    Trump saying that there were "good people on both sides" does not mean that he supports white nationalists, since not every group on the "unite the right" side was made of white nationalists. You can certainly argue that he does, but please come up with things that aren't quite so easily argued around. (and I've yet to hear an argument for how he's a Nazi when his favorite daughter is literally an Orthodox Jew) The more we allow easily refuted arguments to propagate unopposed, the easier it is to assume that there are no legitimate arguments for a position.
- SantalBlush 7y ago
  This question seems rhetorical and insincere. If you disagree, then it might be a better approach to say so than to feign curiosity.
tzakrajs 7y ago
Thank you for putting this here. White nationalism has blinded many people who are unwittingly pushing the agenda to move past this difficult conversation.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Is it actually rising or is everyone not a part of it just becoming more aware of it because they're being reported on more? I think the increased visibility of extremist groups even if said groups aren't increasing in number fits the recent trend of increased polarization. Both sides are screaming their heads off about "look-at all these terrible people on the other side" Edit: The fact that the down-vote to "legitimate answer so my question" ratio right now is 3:1 makes me think that this is a very ideologically difficult question for people here.
- dv_dt 7y ago
  From https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/the-facts-on-white-nationalism/ https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/the-facts-on-white-nationa... * The Southern Poverty Law Center reports a dramatic increase in the number of white nationalist groups in the U.S., from 100 chapters in 2017 to 148 in 2018. * The Anti-Defamation League reports a 182 percent increase in incidents of the distribution of white supremacist propaganda, and an increase in the number of rallies and demonstrations by white supremacy groups, from 76 in 2017 to 91 in 2018. * A study by the Center for Strategic and International Studies found the number of terrorist attacks by far-right perpetrators quadrupled in the U.S. between 2016 and 2017, and that far-right attacks in Europe rose 43 percent over the same period. Among those incidents, CSIS states, the rise of attacks by white supremacists and anti-government extremists is “of particular concern.”
  - fxprq 7y ago
    Those organisations live off the existence of such "hate groups", so I wouldn't trust their data.
  - mc32 7y ago
    I think the FBI numbers are more reliable, though not perfect, and they show a 17% increase but that figure also includes anti-white violence. So there is s rise but not to the degree claimed by those other orgs. I think the FBI is neutral whereas other sources tend to have biases so they’d require additional scrutiny.
blatant 7y ago
Charlottesville was actually the downfall of those white nationalist groups. Ever since then they have lost supporters, been deplatformed, and pushed back into obscurity. Also, the type of militant white nationalism you saw at Charlottesville has definitely not had any real influence on the administration (just like how antifa protesters don't have any influence on the Democratic party).
- DuskStar 7y ago
  > Also, the type of militant white nationalism you saw at Charlottesville has definitely not had any real influence on the administration (just like how antifa protesters don't have any influence on the Democratic party). I'm honestly not sure if you're being sarcastic here.
  - blatant 7y ago
    No, I am not. Many of these white nationalist types want to send all African Americans to Alaska gulag-style, yet you don't see Trump talking about that, do you? Where's the wall? What happened to Steve Bannon and all the non-mainstream Republicans that were in the white house? Why isn't Trump talking about deporting all Muslims? Moreover, these people also hate Israel because they are anti-Semitic, yet Trump is one of the biggest champions of Israel. You see, I am not talking about alt-lite people like Ben Shaprio, I am talking about the neo-nazi, "Defend Evropa" people who were the main sources of outrage during Charlottesville. These are not Fox news Republicans. These people have no actual power compared to the Koch Brothers and lobbyists who are the actual influencers in the white house.
    - DuskStar 7y ago
      Ah, I was looking at this the other way around, as a lot of people would say that Antifa protesters do in fact have some influence over the Democratic party.
- cycrutchfield 7y ago
  The President was mighty sympathetic with the plight of those Charlottesville white nationalists, by his own admission. He views them as his supporters, his base, his constituency. To believe that their ethos has no influence on the administration strains credulity.

microcolonel 7y ago

> I'd say the rise of white nationalism is pretty meaningful and its impact on this administration (and foreign policy) has had significant consequences. Like what? Edit: no really, I'd like to know what you mean by this. As far as I can tell, white nationalists make up an extreme minority voting bloc, and are explicitly denounced and distanced from the current administration. I have absolutely no idea what foreign policy decisions "oshitsdom" is referring to, which have supposedly been influenced by a "rise of white nationalism". That would be a very serious event, and I genuinely want to know if there's some legitimate way of squinting at our shared reality which could give that impression. Edit 2 because I'm rate limited: This is not a rhetorical question, except that nobody has answered honestly. It is a question that is answerable. To form it more explicitly: "Name an example of a consequential foreign policy decision of the current administration which is white nationalist in nature (invokes a desire to create a state where citizenship is contingent on having white skin), and which has clearly been influenced the a cultural force of a 'rise of white nationalism'."

enraged_camel 7y ago
>>As far as I can tell, white nationalists make up an extreme minority voting bloc, and are explicitly denounced and distanced from the current administration. You are very wrong about the latter part. Trump's response to Charlottesville was so bad that the phrase "both sides" became a meme. To this day, he continues to downplay the problem.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  Sure, if you make every possible bad faith effort to misinterpret and obscure what somebody is saying, you'll come away with lots of spicy memes to share with your friends while you're busy agreeing with eachother. That doesn't so much mean you've made a sober assessment of the facts. Also that is not foreign policy.
- DuskStar 7y ago
  Trump saying that there were "good people on both sides" does not mean that he supports white nationalists, since not every group on the "unite the right" side was made of white nationalists. You can certainly argue that he does, but please come up with things that aren't quite so easily argued around. (and I've yet to hear an argument for how he's a Nazi when his favorite daughter is literally an Orthodox Jew) The more we allow easily refuted arguments to propagate unopposed, the easier it is to assume that there are no legitimate arguments for a position.
SantalBlush 7y ago
This question seems rhetorical and insincere. If you disagree, then it might be a better approach to say so than to feign curiosity.

tzakrajs 7y ago

Thank you for putting this here. White nationalism has blinded many people who are unwittingly pushing the agenda to move past this difficult conversation.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

Is it actually rising or is everyone not a part of it just becoming more aware of it because they're being reported on more? I think the increased visibility of extremist groups even if said groups aren't increasing in number fits the recent trend of increased polarization. Both sides are screaming their heads off about "look-at all these terrible people on the other side" Edit: The fact that the down-vote to "legitimate answer so my question" ratio right now is 3:1 makes me think that this is a very ideologically difficult question for people here.

dv_dt 7y ago
From https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/the-facts-on-white-nationalism/ https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/the-facts-on-white-nationa... * The Southern Poverty Law Center reports a dramatic increase in the number of white nationalist groups in the U.S., from 100 chapters in 2017 to 148 in 2018. * The Anti-Defamation League reports a 182 percent increase in incidents of the distribution of white supremacist propaganda, and an increase in the number of rallies and demonstrations by white supremacy groups, from 76 in 2017 to 91 in 2018. * A study by the Center for Strategic and International Studies found the number of terrorist attacks by far-right perpetrators quadrupled in the U.S. between 2016 and 2017, and that far-right attacks in Europe rose 43 percent over the same period. Among those incidents, CSIS states, the rise of attacks by white supremacists and anti-government extremists is “of particular concern.”
- fxprq 7y ago
  Those organisations live off the existence of such "hate groups", so I wouldn't trust their data.
- mc32 7y ago
  I think the FBI numbers are more reliable, though not perfect, and they show a 17% increase but that figure also includes anti-white violence. So there is s rise but not to the degree claimed by those other orgs. I think the FBI is neutral whereas other sources tend to have biases so they’d require additional scrutiny.

blatant 7y ago

Charlottesville was actually the downfall of those white nationalist groups. Ever since then they have lost supporters, been deplatformed, and pushed back into obscurity. Also, the type of militant white nationalism you saw at Charlottesville has definitely not had any real influence on the administration (just like how antifa protesters don't have any influence on the Democratic party).

DuskStar 7y ago
> Also, the type of militant white nationalism you saw at Charlottesville has definitely not had any real influence on the administration (just like how antifa protesters don't have any influence on the Democratic party). I'm honestly not sure if you're being sarcastic here.
- blatant 7y ago
  No, I am not. Many of these white nationalist types want to send all African Americans to Alaska gulag-style, yet you don't see Trump talking about that, do you? Where's the wall? What happened to Steve Bannon and all the non-mainstream Republicans that were in the white house? Why isn't Trump talking about deporting all Muslims? Moreover, these people also hate Israel because they are anti-Semitic, yet Trump is one of the biggest champions of Israel. You see, I am not talking about alt-lite people like Ben Shaprio, I am talking about the neo-nazi, "Defend Evropa" people who were the main sources of outrage during Charlottesville. These are not Fox news Republicans. These people have no actual power compared to the Koch Brothers and lobbyists who are the actual influencers in the white house.
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    Ah, I was looking at this the other way around, as a lot of people would say that Antifa protesters do in fact have some influence over the Democratic party.
cycrutchfield 7y ago
The President was mighty sympathetic with the plight of those Charlottesville white nationalists, by his own admission. He views them as his supporters, his base, his constituency. To believe that their ethos has no influence on the administration strains credulity.