7 ms·

I think most of the reasons for admin rights are no longer valid. Its easy to change user environment variables and lots of applications can be installed as a u

by rb808 7y ago

I think most of the reasons for admin rights are no longer valid. Its easy to change user environment variables and lots of applications can be installed as a user. Why would you need admin rights? Dropbox/googledrive is a huge security hole that is definitely blocked at most companies I work at.

beart 7y ago
One example off the top of my head: It used to be (may still be) the case that you needed admin rights to install and run the Windows Subsystem for Linux. Sure, you might not need this to do your job, but IT is not really in a position to decide that. It could be that WSL greatly increases your productivity.
- maxxxxx 7y ago
  Exactly. Unfortunately windows admin rights are not very granular so if you do anything serious you end up needing full admin soon.
  - basch 7y ago
    Application control is granular if you use SCCM or Intune and Application Guard. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/client-management/mdm/windowsdefenderapplicationguard-csp https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/client-management/m... There is absolutely middle ground if you have the time and resources to get it running smoothly.
    - maxxxxx 7y ago
      I am sure solutions could be found. But it would require effort from IT to understand what we are doing and finding real solutions.
- esoterica 7y ago
  You can ask IT to install it for you. You don’t need to install it yourself.
  - frosted-flakes 7y ago
    But then you're waiting around for the rest of the day for them to come install it.
    - maxxxxx 7y ago
      They wouldn't even know how to install our stuff.
      - nmstoker 7y ago
        Precisely! And then they'll get it wrong (or worse still say they won't do it the way you ask even though you will know better why those choices are needed!)
    - TheRealDunkirk 7y ago
      DAY!? What magical place do you work at where IT is so specialized that you have to request them to install an application, and it only takes ONE DAY?
  - ClassyJacket 7y ago
    Hahahaha, I do this job (the IT software installer), and no dev should be without admin rights. It's not practical to sit around for a week or more while you wait for each piece of software to install. No dev will ever get any work done.
maxxxxx 7y ago
This is about Windows desktop development. I need admin rights to install sql server, I need them to customize my machine so it’s similar to our target environment. I need to change user permissions all the time yo see how things behave under different conditions . There is a ton more I could walk you through and have done multiple times. Comments like yours come repeatedly from people who don’t know about the work we do. I have offered them to demonstrate doing our job without admin rights but so far nobody has even tried. They just keep sending the same email about not needing admin rights which has repeatedly been showed to not work.
- rb808 7y ago
  If you want a proper dev environment that matches your target you need a proper server to have sql server installed on. I'm pretty sure someone can install sql server on your workstation if you really need it. User permissioning is a dbo task. After that you just have to live with it like the rest of us.
  - maxxxxx 7y ago
    You sound exactly like every other IT guy who doesn’t understand what we are working on. We then explain everything to them and usually they disappear and are never heard of again. That is, until the next guy shows up a year later and the cycle repeats.
    - bena 7y ago
      It's like they don't realize that it's all software. Software that needs to do administrative tasks needs administrative permissions on the machine. I really don't see how you can develop such software without having at least the ability to easily gain administrative permission on the machine.
    - rb808 7y ago
      I was a dev in the 90s and the start of the 2000s and always had admin rights. I dont need it any more. If you really had an edge case that requires admin rights I'm surprised. If you really need SQL server on your workstation you should think about using a different database. If your company says you have to use SQL server and you have to have it on your workstation and you need to reinstall it regularly and you're obviously screwed you go up the management chain with your unsolvable problem that breaks their policy. Is very unusual now - most people just moan they want admin rights when they can live perfectly fine without it.
alasdair_ 7y ago
Running things like wireshark or certain debuggers without admin rights is often difficult. Also, lots of stuff simply cannot be installed as a regular user, especially stuff that needs unfettered access to network cards or memory.
wernercd 7y ago
Why do you need admin rights? IIS development - Visual Studio needs Admin to actively debug IIS. Memory tools like dotMemory. Dealing with Windows Services. Shit... dealing with Windows.
TheRealDunkirk 7y ago
> lots of applications can be installed as a user. Because most of the non-insignificant ones still CAN'T be, under Windows, to this day. So special people get a completely separate account with pseudo-admin rights. I have to enter those credentials several times a day. Then I spoke to a help desk guy, who said he had to enter his domain admin account password 40 TIMES a day. What a waste.
- brokenmachine 7y ago
  40 times? I enter passwords probably double that per day.

by rb808 7y ago

beart 7y ago

One example off the top of my head: It used to be (may still be) the case that you needed admin rights to install and run the Windows Subsystem for Linux. Sure, you might not need this to do your job, but IT is not really in a position to decide that. It could be that WSL greatly increases your productivity.

maxxxxx 7y ago
Exactly. Unfortunately windows admin rights are not very granular so if you do anything serious you end up needing full admin soon.
- basch 7y ago
  Application control is granular if you use SCCM or Intune and Application Guard. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/client-management/mdm/windowsdefenderapplicationguard-csp https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/client-management/m... There is absolutely middle ground if you have the time and resources to get it running smoothly.
  - maxxxxx 7y ago
    I am sure solutions could be found. But it would require effort from IT to understand what we are doing and finding real solutions.
esoterica 7y ago
You can ask IT to install it for you. You don’t need to install it yourself.
- frosted-flakes 7y ago
  But then you're waiting around for the rest of the day for them to come install it.
  - maxxxxx 7y ago
    They wouldn't even know how to install our stuff.
    - nmstoker 7y ago
      Precisely! And then they'll get it wrong (or worse still say they won't do it the way you ask even though you will know better why those choices are needed!)
  - TheRealDunkirk 7y ago
    DAY!? What magical place do you work at where IT is so specialized that you have to request them to install an application, and it only takes ONE DAY?
- ClassyJacket 7y ago
  Hahahaha, I do this job (the IT software installer), and no dev should be without admin rights. It's not practical to sit around for a week or more while you wait for each piece of software to install. No dev will ever get any work done.

maxxxxx 7y ago

This is about Windows desktop development. I need admin rights to install sql server, I need them to customize my machine so it’s similar to our target environment. I need to change user permissions all the time yo see how things behave under different conditions . There is a ton more I could walk you through and have done multiple times. Comments like yours come repeatedly from people who don’t know about the work we do. I have offered them to demonstrate doing our job without admin rights but so far nobody has even tried. They just keep sending the same email about not needing admin rights which has repeatedly been showed to not work.

rb808 7y ago
If you want a proper dev environment that matches your target you need a proper server to have sql server installed on. I'm pretty sure someone can install sql server on your workstation if you really need it. User permissioning is a dbo task. After that you just have to live with it like the rest of us.
- maxxxxx 7y ago
  You sound exactly like every other IT guy who doesn’t understand what we are working on. We then explain everything to them and usually they disappear and are never heard of again. That is, until the next guy shows up a year later and the cycle repeats.
  - bena 7y ago
    It's like they don't realize that it's all software. Software that needs to do administrative tasks needs administrative permissions on the machine. I really don't see how you can develop such software without having at least the ability to easily gain administrative permission on the machine.
  - rb808 7y ago
    I was a dev in the 90s and the start of the 2000s and always had admin rights. I dont need it any more. If you really had an edge case that requires admin rights I'm surprised. If you really need SQL server on your workstation you should think about using a different database. If your company says you have to use SQL server and you have to have it on your workstation and you need to reinstall it regularly and you're obviously screwed you go up the management chain with your unsolvable problem that breaks their policy. Is very unusual now - most people just moan they want admin rights when they can live perfectly fine without it.

alasdair_ 7y ago

Running things like wireshark or certain debuggers without admin rights is often difficult. Also, lots of stuff simply cannot be installed as a regular user, especially stuff that needs unfettered access to network cards or memory.

wernercd 7y ago

Why do you need admin rights? IIS development - Visual Studio needs Admin to actively debug IIS. Memory tools like dotMemory. Dealing with Windows Services. Shit... dealing with Windows.

TheRealDunkirk 7y ago

> lots of applications can be installed as a user. Because most of the non-insignificant ones still CAN'T be, under Windows, to this day. So special people get a completely separate account with pseudo-admin rights. I have to enter those credentials several times a day. Then I spoke to a help desk guy, who said he had to enter his domain admin account password 40 TIMES a day. What a waste.

brokenmachine 7y ago
40 times? I enter passwords probably double that per day.