7 ms·

Whatever we think of the mainland Chinese justice system, and there is indeed a lot to be said about it, the current situation is rather strange. Indeed, it se

Whatever we think of the mainland Chinese justice system, and there is indeed a lot to be said about it, the current situation is rather strange. Indeed, it seems quite extraordinary that someone could not be sent from one territory of the PRC to another one to face trial.

ksec 7y ago
It is a feature, not a bug. Someone has the great insight to foresee what could happen 30 years ago.
- NotPaidToPost 7y ago
  I thought we could have mature discussions on HN. I was wrong. The current situation made some sense when HK was a colony of the British: The Brits made the law and did not cooperate too much with "the reds". But now, as someone looking at it from abroad, it makes no sense at all. This is not about "foresight" or anything like that. It does not help someone's cause to downvote comments and to refuse to discuss on facts, and to riot. In fact it make people look like "red guards". Edit: This has nothing to do with "one country, two systems". The principle is respected here with HK having to pass specific legislation according to its own legal system in order to allow extradition to mainland China. The point is that it makes no sense to have extradition treaties with, say, the US but not with mainland China for a Chinese territory. The insults and the fact that people now track my comments history to downvote all of them on random topics prove my preceding point about "red guards"... Disgraceful tactics.
  - marcinzm 7y ago
    Hong Kong rejoined China under specific agreements. Those agreements were in place because the people of Hong Kong did not want to becomes just another piece of China. As such they retained high levels of legal, government and economic autonomy. Colloquially it's known as "one country, two systems." So, yes, someone probably foresaw this issue and didn't want Hong Kong to become a puppet of China used as a giant fly swatter after re-unification. You're probably being down voted due to the utter lack of history and context (ie: lack of basic research) you're showing which generally makes intelligent discussions pointless. edit: A example of similar systems in the west are native reservations which enjoy varying levels of autonomy despite being part of the country they're located in.
  - ksec 7y ago
    1. Which part of the discussion were not mature? 2. The situation is not loophole left by the British. But it was specifically left in place so the one country two system would work for the next ( then ) 50 years. To guarantee the certain freedom of the Hong Kong people which was clearly listed out in the Sino-British Joint Declaration. 3. It is not a Riot. ( I am sorry but that has to be one of the most insulting thing ever said ) No one started a Riot, What was once, one of the most peaceful protest. by 1M people, was fired with Rubber Bullet and Later Metal Bullet to eyes and head shot ( Both in ER ), Along with Tear Gas with NO Prior warning, Against a group of people with bare hands and no weapon.
    - luckylion 7y ago
      > 1. Which part of the discussion were not mature? For my personal taste: the "I don't agree with this opinion so I will downvote this comment instead of replying with an argument" part that many users engage in. I see two explanations: infantile "NO NO NO" and malicious "if I downvote this, it will be buried and fewer others will see it". Given the design of the voting and flagging system and the fact that it's not discouraged, it appears that this is a desired behavior.
      - darkpuma 7y ago
        > "I don't agree with this opinion so I will downvote this comment" If that bothers you, then HN is not the site for you. Downvotes for disagreeing has received the thumb of approval from PG[0]. Upvotes are for agree and downvotes are for disagree. On reddit people like to pretend otherwise (even though it's true in practice there as well), but here on HN there are no bones about it. [0] one example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658683 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658683
        NotPaidToPost 7y ago
        Hence the groupthink we see all the time... Not least on such a topic which is 'owned' by extremists who will not tolerate even a shred of non-conformity. It's hypocrisy when mods say otherwise.
  - ksec 7y ago
    >The point is that it makes no sense to have extradition treaties with, say, the US but not with mainland China for a Chinese territory. It also make no sense for Hong Kong to have its own currency, HKD, pegged to USD. Along with its own laws and system. Even driving is on the "wrong" side of the road as one might say. And it is everything about the One Country Two System which is promised and now trying to be broken. You might have a point if this was happening in 2046. >The insults and the fact that people now track my comments history to downvote all of them on random topics prove my preceding point about "red guards"... Disgraceful tactics. HN can downvote comment that is well pass a few hours. You can only upvote pass comments. And since most of your recent comment are about the same topic, may be they just happen to disagree with you.
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> Whatever we think of the mainland Chinese justice system Beijing just unilaterally broke the Hong Kong handover agreement. In that agreement, China explicitly agreed that there would be two systems within PRC territory [1]. There is no way to sue the CPC in a Chinese court to enforce Hong Kong’s rights under the treaty. In Hong Kong (as in Taiwan, Japan, Britain and the U.S.) the government is answerable to the law. In China, it is not. That is the crux of the issue. The way Beijing is cramming down this legislation is, funnily enough, the argument against it. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong

ksec 7y ago

It is a feature, not a bug. Someone has the great insight to foresee what could happen 30 years ago.

NotPaidToPost 7y ago
I thought we could have mature discussions on HN. I was wrong. The current situation made some sense when HK was a colony of the British: The Brits made the law and did not cooperate too much with "the reds". But now, as someone looking at it from abroad, it makes no sense at all. This is not about "foresight" or anything like that. It does not help someone's cause to downvote comments and to refuse to discuss on facts, and to riot. In fact it make people look like "red guards". Edit: This has nothing to do with "one country, two systems". The principle is respected here with HK having to pass specific legislation according to its own legal system in order to allow extradition to mainland China. The point is that it makes no sense to have extradition treaties with, say, the US but not with mainland China for a Chinese territory. The insults and the fact that people now track my comments history to downvote all of them on random topics prove my preceding point about "red guards"... Disgraceful tactics.
- marcinzm 7y ago
  Hong Kong rejoined China under specific agreements. Those agreements were in place because the people of Hong Kong did not want to becomes just another piece of China. As such they retained high levels of legal, government and economic autonomy. Colloquially it's known as "one country, two systems." So, yes, someone probably foresaw this issue and didn't want Hong Kong to become a puppet of China used as a giant fly swatter after re-unification. You're probably being down voted due to the utter lack of history and context (ie: lack of basic research) you're showing which generally makes intelligent discussions pointless. edit: A example of similar systems in the west are native reservations which enjoy varying levels of autonomy despite being part of the country they're located in.
- ksec 7y ago
  1. Which part of the discussion were not mature? 2. The situation is not loophole left by the British. But it was specifically left in place so the one country two system would work for the next ( then ) 50 years. To guarantee the certain freedom of the Hong Kong people which was clearly listed out in the Sino-British Joint Declaration. 3. It is not a Riot. ( I am sorry but that has to be one of the most insulting thing ever said ) No one started a Riot, What was once, one of the most peaceful protest. by 1M people, was fired with Rubber Bullet and Later Metal Bullet to eyes and head shot ( Both in ER ), Along with Tear Gas with NO Prior warning, Against a group of people with bare hands and no weapon.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    > 1. Which part of the discussion were not mature? For my personal taste: the "I don't agree with this opinion so I will downvote this comment instead of replying with an argument" part that many users engage in. I see two explanations: infantile "NO NO NO" and malicious "if I downvote this, it will be buried and fewer others will see it". Given the design of the voting and flagging system and the fact that it's not discouraged, it appears that this is a desired behavior.
    - darkpuma 7y ago
      > "I don't agree with this opinion so I will downvote this comment" If that bothers you, then HN is not the site for you. Downvotes for disagreeing has received the thumb of approval from PG[0]. Upvotes are for agree and downvotes are for disagree. On reddit people like to pretend otherwise (even though it's true in practice there as well), but here on HN there are no bones about it. [0] one example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658683 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658683
      - NotPaidToPost 7y ago
        Hence the groupthink we see all the time... Not least on such a topic which is 'owned' by extremists who will not tolerate even a shred of non-conformity. It's hypocrisy when mods say otherwise.
- ksec 7y ago
  >The point is that it makes no sense to have extradition treaties with, say, the US but not with mainland China for a Chinese territory. It also make no sense for Hong Kong to have its own currency, HKD, pegged to USD. Along with its own laws and system. Even driving is on the "wrong" side of the road as one might say. And it is everything about the One Country Two System which is promised and now trying to be broken. You might have a point if this was happening in 2046. >The insults and the fact that people now track my comments history to downvote all of them on random topics prove my preceding point about "red guards"... Disgraceful tactics. HN can downvote comment that is well pass a few hours. You can only upvote pass comments. And since most of your recent comment are about the same topic, may be they just happen to disagree with you.

JumpCrisscross 7y ago

> Whatever we think of the mainland Chinese justice system Beijing just unilaterally broke the Hong Kong handover agreement. In that agreement, China explicitly agreed that there would be two systems within PRC territory [1]. There is no way to sue the CPC in a Chinese court to enforce Hong Kong’s rights under the treaty. In Hong Kong (as in Taiwan, Japan, Britain and the U.S.) the government is answerable to the law. In China, it is not. That is the crux of the issue. The way Beijing is cramming down this legislation is, funnily enough, the argument against it. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong