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I've seen this argument before and tend to disagree. There is certainly greed, but I think the larger problem is that crypto doesn't have users. I don't think

I've seen this argument before and tend to disagree. There is certainly greed, but I think the larger problem is that crypto doesn't have users. I don't think it's particularly novel in 2019 to say that a successful app is built off of the feedback of its users. Any app, regardless of intentions or engineering prowess, is going to struggle if it doesn't have a sizeable user base providing feedback (and devs who listen to that feedback).

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kebman 7y ago
I think you're touching on an important point. There are already other vessels for the niche that cryptocurrency fills—at least as far as websites and web services go—that are way easier to both implement and use. With that said, I'm still rooting for cryptocurrency as a general competitor to state-backed currency, that in turn gives people all over the world more freedom to conduct their business without state or corporate intervention. That is most of all about freedom, and the only bogeyman they've yet to conjure against it is "it's used for criminal stuff". Like the dollar isn't also used for crime...
- davidgerard 7y ago
  > Like the dollar isn't also used for crime... Crypto people say this like it's an argument in their favour - whereas it actually means: even for its one and only genuine consumer use case, crypto is utterly trounced by conventional currency.
- plywoodtrees 7y ago
  The distinction between "gives people more freedom to conduct their business without state intervention" and "enables crime" seems very elusive. I can see an argument that enabling crime under oppressive regimes is moral. Or even enabling particular crimes that you feel shouldn't be crimes. I have trouble seeing the legitimate use case for cryptocurrency in first world countries. If the main use case is crime, money laundering and speculation, it will either be squashed or remain niche.
  - drawnwren 7y ago
    I tend to agree with your assessment, but you are dancing around an important point. Most people in the world don't live in a first world democracy. Today, many of these countries are stable and providing currency for their citizens. But ask a Venezuelan if they can see a reason why we might want an alternative to a state backed currency and I feel like the answer is self-evident. Vitalik saw this use case and talked about how disheartened he was by the ICO boom because it was use cases like this that he believed in, so it isn't at all an afterthought.

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kebman 7y ago

I think you're touching on an important point. There are already other vessels for the niche that cryptocurrency fills—at least as far as websites and web services go—that are way easier to both implement and use. With that said, I'm still rooting for cryptocurrency as a general competitor to state-backed currency, that in turn gives people all over the world more freedom to conduct their business without state or corporate intervention. That is most of all about freedom, and the only bogeyman they've yet to conjure against it is "it's used for criminal stuff". Like the dollar isn't also used for crime...

davidgerard 7y ago
> Like the dollar isn't also used for crime... Crypto people say this like it's an argument in their favour - whereas it actually means: even for its one and only genuine consumer use case, crypto is utterly trounced by conventional currency.
plywoodtrees 7y ago
The distinction between "gives people more freedom to conduct their business without state intervention" and "enables crime" seems very elusive. I can see an argument that enabling crime under oppressive regimes is moral. Or even enabling particular crimes that you feel shouldn't be crimes. I have trouble seeing the legitimate use case for cryptocurrency in first world countries. If the main use case is crime, money laundering and speculation, it will either be squashed or remain niche.
- drawnwren 7y ago
  I tend to agree with your assessment, but you are dancing around an important point. Most people in the world don't live in a first world democracy. Today, many of these countries are stable and providing currency for their citizens. But ask a Venezuelan if they can see a reason why we might want an alternative to a state backed currency and I feel like the answer is self-evident. Vitalik saw this use case and talked about how disheartened he was by the ICO boom because it was use cases like this that he believed in, so it isn't at all an afterthought.