4 ms·

What if I don't care whether Lyft gets their ROI and just want the best bike share possible?

praneshp 7y ago
That's the same as "What if I don't care about killing other people and just want the most space for myself". A contract is a contract.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  Unconscionable contracts, especially when one of the parties is a taxing jurisdiction, have no ethical force. I'm not certain that this was an unconscionable contract, but you have to at least make the argument. What consideration did the people of this municipality receive in exchange for this encumbrance placed on their liberty?
  - maxerickson 7y ago
    I read the contract as being about the use of publicly owned space for the docks. That seems more like a municipal corporation making a stupid agreement than it does an encumbrance on anyone's liberty. Rent private space for your bike racks...
    - closeparen 7y ago
      Which might make sense in the city’s view that it is a deal about docks, not about all bikeshare.
- damnyou 7y ago
  No, a contract is not simply a contract. Contracts are only enforced when a court agrees they are enforceable. A court can declare a contract unenforceable for a variety of reasons, such as if it was ill-formed, one side was overwhelmingly more powerful, or the contract is against public policy (such as non-compete agreements in California). https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unenforceable-contracts-tips-33079.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unenforceable-contra...
  - praneshp 7y ago
    And in this case, Lyft is simply trying to ascertain that the courts will uphold this contract. No need to hate on them simply for taking the city to court.
paxys 7y ago
Blame your elected officials for signing the contract.
- toomuchequate 7y ago
  Better, blame the people who voted them in. In modern times regulations are monopolistic power grabs by corporations, not the 'protection' they are intended to be. It has been clear this happens, but people continue to elect politicians that regulate anyway. Hopefully this is a traumatic event and teaches this community a good lesson. Our locals cities can take note, and their voters learn an important lesson that could otherwise harm national level elections.
scottlamb 7y ago
You probably should be upset with the city for granting the monopoly in the first place. Now that they have, I'm not sure. Maybe there's a legal and ethical way to break the contract, but arguing dockless bikes aren't bike sharing probably isn't it.
- vadym909 7y ago
  you are just making the taxi medallion owner's point against Lyft and Uber
  - scottlamb 7y ago
    Yeah, the hypocrisy of this particular company getting (through acquisition) an exclusive contract and aggressively defending it didn't escape me, and I'd be happy to hear a good way to break it.
digitxpc 7y ago
Throw lots and lots of money funding at a bikeshare system so that the system doesn't need to care about profit. Hire competent, driven people for the system so they feel motivated to make the system better even without any financial incentives. (Perhaps a little pixie dust would help as well.)
untog 7y ago
An exclusivity agreement might result in the best bike share possible. I don't want to pick up one company's bike and struggle to find a dock for that same company when it comes time for dropoff. Either one company gets exclusivity, or you end up with a huge amount of public space given over to redundant infrastructure.
- closeparen 7y ago
  That is no reason to prohibit dockless bikeshares.
- gbear605 7y ago
  Or you mandate a docking system that works for all the bike companies. Commoditize the docks using public action and then the free market can actually be free to solve the rest.
  - ViViDboarder 7y ago
    There ought to be a solution somewhere in this line. This alone won’t solve it as a company could flood the docks and block out competition that way. Having multiple companies running taxis or P2P ride apps doesn’t matter so much as users as you can still hail a cab the same way and many P2P drivers use both Lyft and Uber, creating a good user experience. However, that’s not true for these types of bike/scooter shares. The density of bikes/scooters is not so high that I’ll be able to pick just one app and have no problem finding transportation. And, if it was, we’d be tripping over them left and right. Even interoperability between apps would be enough to solve this.

That's the same as "What if I don't care about killing other people and just want the most space for myself". A contract is a contract.

jessaustin 7y ago
Unconscionable contracts, especially when one of the parties is a taxing jurisdiction, have no ethical force. I'm not certain that this was an unconscionable contract, but you have to at least make the argument. What consideration did the people of this municipality receive in exchange for this encumbrance placed on their liberty?
- maxerickson 7y ago
  I read the contract as being about the use of publicly owned space for the docks. That seems more like a municipal corporation making a stupid agreement than it does an encumbrance on anyone's liberty. Rent private space for your bike racks...
  - closeparen 7y ago
    Which might make sense in the city’s view that it is a deal about docks, not about all bikeshare.
damnyou 7y ago
No, a contract is not simply a contract. Contracts are only enforced when a court agrees they are enforceable. A court can declare a contract unenforceable for a variety of reasons, such as if it was ill-formed, one side was overwhelmingly more powerful, or the contract is against public policy (such as non-compete agreements in California). https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unenforceable-contracts-tips-33079.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unenforceable-contra...
- praneshp 7y ago
  And in this case, Lyft is simply trying to ascertain that the courts will uphold this contract. No need to hate on them simply for taking the city to court.

paxys 7y ago

Blame your elected officials for signing the contract.

toomuchequate 7y ago
Better, blame the people who voted them in. In modern times regulations are monopolistic power grabs by corporations, not the 'protection' they are intended to be. It has been clear this happens, but people continue to elect politicians that regulate anyway. Hopefully this is a traumatic event and teaches this community a good lesson. Our locals cities can take note, and their voters learn an important lesson that could otherwise harm national level elections.

scottlamb 7y ago

You probably should be upset with the city for granting the monopoly in the first place. Now that they have, I'm not sure. Maybe there's a legal and ethical way to break the contract, but arguing dockless bikes aren't bike sharing probably isn't it.

vadym909 7y ago
you are just making the taxi medallion owner's point against Lyft and Uber
- scottlamb 7y ago
  Yeah, the hypocrisy of this particular company getting (through acquisition) an exclusive contract and aggressively defending it didn't escape me, and I'd be happy to hear a good way to break it.

digitxpc 7y ago

Throw lots and lots of money funding at a bikeshare system so that the system doesn't need to care about profit. Hire competent, driven people for the system so they feel motivated to make the system better even without any financial incentives. (Perhaps a little pixie dust would help as well.)

untog 7y ago

An exclusivity agreement might result in the best bike share possible. I don't want to pick up one company's bike and struggle to find a dock for that same company when it comes time for dropoff. Either one company gets exclusivity, or you end up with a huge amount of public space given over to redundant infrastructure.

closeparen 7y ago
That is no reason to prohibit dockless bikeshares.
gbear605 7y ago
Or you mandate a docking system that works for all the bike companies. Commoditize the docks using public action and then the free market can actually be free to solve the rest.
- ViViDboarder 7y ago
  There ought to be a solution somewhere in this line. This alone won’t solve it as a company could flood the docks and block out competition that way. Having multiple companies running taxis or P2P ride apps doesn’t matter so much as users as you can still hail a cab the same way and many P2P drivers use both Lyft and Uber, creating a good user experience. However, that’s not true for these types of bike/scooter shares. The density of bikes/scooters is not so high that I’ll be able to pick just one app and have no problem finding transportation. And, if it was, we’d be tripping over them left and right. Even interoperability between apps would be enough to solve this.