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I like your cynical take, but I'm not convinced it's actually the goal of management in all cases. I could see it drifting in that direction over time regardles

I like your cynical take, but I'm not convinced it's actually the goal of management in all cases. I could see it drifting in that direction over time regardless. That said, some founders are actually idealists. I frequently discuss this topic with people who are aware of the invisible hierarchy problem and are interested in potential solutions. I think there are well-meaning attempts at this, even if they don't work perfectly.

veddox 7y ago
> the invisible hierarchy problem I'm not in favour of flat systems for exactly this reason. I think they try to solve the problem of bad leadership structurally, by simply pretending to abolish leadership. IMO, it would better be addressed personally - e.g. by investing in leadership training or vetting candidates for leadership roles more thoroughly.
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  I think some people, myself included, are coming at this with an ideological lense. The problem we want to solve isn't bad leadership, it's leadership in general. Hierarchy is a problem for us, and it's just as valid a problem to pick as human suffering or anything else. Coming at things from this angle, investing in leadership training is addressing a different problem entirely. I suspect that the "flat" organizations we've seen, such as Valve, have some pretty major shortcomings. I could see there being solutions to some of these shortcomings through technology and game-theory (decision making apps with specifics I don't know the details of), and I also think there might organizational structures somewhere between the traditional hierarchy and a flat structure where small hierarchies exist in a flat higher-level organization (I get how an interpretation of this can converge on the current higher-order ecosystem of corporations, but there are other directions you can take it).

veddox 7y ago

> the invisible hierarchy problem I'm not in favour of flat systems for exactly this reason. I think they try to solve the problem of bad leadership structurally, by simply pretending to abolish leadership. IMO, it would better be addressed personally - e.g. by investing in leadership training or vetting candidates for leadership roles more thoroughly.

blotter_paper 7y ago
I think some people, myself included, are coming at this with an ideological lense. The problem we want to solve isn't bad leadership, it's leadership in general. Hierarchy is a problem for us, and it's just as valid a problem to pick as human suffering or anything else. Coming at things from this angle, investing in leadership training is addressing a different problem entirely. I suspect that the "flat" organizations we've seen, such as Valve, have some pretty major shortcomings. I could see there being solutions to some of these shortcomings through technology and game-theory (decision making apps with specifics I don't know the details of), and I also think there might organizational structures somewhere between the traditional hierarchy and a flat structure where small hierarchies exist in a flat higher-level organization (I get how an interpretation of this can converge on the current higher-order ecosystem of corporations, but there are other directions you can take it).