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Imagine if that were reversed: A Chinese company refused to give the US government access to the accounts of Americans. Would you protest?

wbl 7y ago
One country sells organs of political prisoners on the black market and imprisons millions for religious beliefs. The other has millions of people including much of the media call the current leader a fool openly with no fear of arrest.
- dvduval 7y ago
  China has lifted 850 million people out of poverty. Percentage-wise, we have far more prisoners in the US. The answer lies in the instability that China experienced in the past leading to the largest famine in human history. They will certainly do what they need to do to prevent instability. Sometimes it is heavy-handed, but as I said in another thread we have Indian reservations, border detentions, hate groups, largest per capita prison population, a high murder rate. We are far from perfect it's easy to point the finger about something that you know less about.
  - mhh__ 7y ago
    I would rather live in a flawed democracy than whatever China is becoming
    - tepidandroid 7y ago
      Much like the Chinese would prefer to live under authoritarian but stable rule rather than whatever balkanized aberration a premature and flawed democracy that a billion illiterate peasants living in abject poverty would have produced.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    Stop saying “us” when you are referring to the US because it confuses the points you try to sound like someone with inside knowledge of China.
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    > Indian reservations Sovereign ruled. > border detentions Of illegal border crossers. > hate groups That danged First Ammendment. > largest per capita prison population Probably a statement more about valuing human rights. We don't just execute criminals we don't like. > a high murder rate I found the US to be about 90th down the list of countries in the world for murder, at 5.35 per 100k [1]. Maybe we are a little more perfect than you think. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
  - matchbok 7y ago
    You keep spamming about poverty in this thread. That is 100% irrelevant and an obvious distraction. Do better.
- aclsid 7y ago
  That there might be corruption in a prison system that leads some corrupt officials to do perverse acts like selling organs is one thing, but stating that this is a state sponsored practice is a bit extreme don't you think? Any links to what you are claiming would be good.
wp381640 7y ago
False equivalence - the US government may not be perfect but in terms of human rights it is undoubtedly better than China We wouldn't even be having this conversation on a China-hosted forum
- dvduval 7y ago
  You're right about that but I don't know that you really understand fully either. In the United States we have a lot of secret money funding agendas in our social media that could most certainly be regarded as propaganda. In China they want to prevent propaganda from being used to destroy their country from within. You'd be surprised how many Chinese people actually support the notion that propaganda can be used for evil, and support preventing division through use of propaganda.
lern_too_spel 7y ago
We rightly criticize IBM for selling machines to Nazi Germany after they knew Germany was rounding up millions of Jews and that their machines would be put to use for that purpose. I rightly criticize Apple for giving data to the Chinese government after it knew that China is rounding up millions of Uyghurs and using the data for that purpose. It is to the shame of IBM employees at the time and Apple employees today that they do nothing to stop this, and it is to the credit of anonymous Google employees who sunlighted Dragonfly to stop that despite the risk of employer retaliation. With Apple putting profits before human rights and privacy, it is up to us as consumers to raise a stink.
lern_too_spel 7y ago
No need. The Chinese company would simply be blocked in the US.

wbl 7y ago

One country sells organs of political prisoners on the black market and imprisons millions for religious beliefs. The other has millions of people including much of the media call the current leader a fool openly with no fear of arrest.

dvduval 7y ago
China has lifted 850 million people out of poverty. Percentage-wise, we have far more prisoners in the US. The answer lies in the instability that China experienced in the past leading to the largest famine in human history. They will certainly do what they need to do to prevent instability. Sometimes it is heavy-handed, but as I said in another thread we have Indian reservations, border detentions, hate groups, largest per capita prison population, a high murder rate. We are far from perfect it's easy to point the finger about something that you know less about.
- mhh__ 7y ago
  I would rather live in a flawed democracy than whatever China is becoming
  - tepidandroid 7y ago
    Much like the Chinese would prefer to live under authoritarian but stable rule rather than whatever balkanized aberration a premature and flawed democracy that a billion illiterate peasants living in abject poverty would have produced.
- kortilla 7y ago
  Stop saying “us” when you are referring to the US because it confuses the points you try to sound like someone with inside knowledge of China.
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  > Indian reservations Sovereign ruled. > border detentions Of illegal border crossers. > hate groups That danged First Ammendment. > largest per capita prison population Probably a statement more about valuing human rights. We don't just execute criminals we don't like. > a high murder rate I found the US to be about 90th down the list of countries in the world for murder, at 5.35 per 100k [1]. Maybe we are a little more perfect than you think. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
- matchbok 7y ago
  You keep spamming about poverty in this thread. That is 100% irrelevant and an obvious distraction. Do better.
aclsid 7y ago
That there might be corruption in a prison system that leads some corrupt officials to do perverse acts like selling organs is one thing, but stating that this is a state sponsored practice is a bit extreme don't you think? Any links to what you are claiming would be good.

wp381640 7y ago

False equivalence - the US government may not be perfect but in terms of human rights it is undoubtedly better than China We wouldn't even be having this conversation on a China-hosted forum

dvduval 7y ago
You're right about that but I don't know that you really understand fully either. In the United States we have a lot of secret money funding agendas in our social media that could most certainly be regarded as propaganda. In China they want to prevent propaganda from being used to destroy their country from within. You'd be surprised how many Chinese people actually support the notion that propaganda can be used for evil, and support preventing division through use of propaganda.

lern_too_spel 7y ago

We rightly criticize IBM for selling machines to Nazi Germany after they knew Germany was rounding up millions of Jews and that their machines would be put to use for that purpose. I rightly criticize Apple for giving data to the Chinese government after it knew that China is rounding up millions of Uyghurs and using the data for that purpose. It is to the shame of IBM employees at the time and Apple employees today that they do nothing to stop this, and it is to the credit of anonymous Google employees who sunlighted Dragonfly to stop that despite the risk of employer retaliation. With Apple putting profits before human rights and privacy, it is up to us as consumers to raise a stink.

lern_too_spel 7y ago

No need. The Chinese company would simply be blocked in the US.