4 ms·

How would a carbon tax be implemented in the short time we still have to tackle the climate crisis? Society hasn't been able to fix all the normal tax loopholes

How would a carbon tax be implemented in the short time we still have to tackle the climate crisis? Society hasn't been able to fix all the normal tax loopholes and avoidance, why would a carbon tax suddenly be efficient?

dev_dull 7y ago
And even if WE did implement it quickly and efficiency, and it works as intended, how do you convinced the other countries responsible for the other 85% of global carbon emissions to care?
- perfunctory 7y ago
  Some other countries have already implemented carbon tax. Some as early as 1991 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax#Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax#Sweden And what about China? Well, if US introduces carbon tax, demanding the same from China would a fair move in the current trade negotiations.
- mac01021 7y ago
  1) Many of them already claim to care but won't benefit much from any policies they might implement if the US and China and India aren't going to act too. 2) The current carbon pricing bill in the House of Representatives (HR 763 [1][2]) includes border adjustments based on the carbon footprint of imported goods, which will incentivize our trading partners to implement similar policies or reduce their carbon footprints by other means. [1] https://citizensclimatelobby.org/energy-innovation-and-carbon-dividend-act/ https://citizensclimatelobby.org/energy-innovation-and-carbo... [2] https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/763 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/763
- chimprich 7y ago
  How do you convince the countries responsible for the other 85% if you haven't taken steps yourself? Someone has to lead.
specialist 7y ago
Punctuated equilibrium is an optimistic worldview of policy change. AKA "first a little, then a lot". Meaning big sweeping changes after long periods of apparent inaction. I've never quite understood how it works with evolution, a la Stephen Jay Gould. But with politics, it's basically memetics and attention economy. First, correctly identify the problem. Second, divine some useful plan of action. Third, crisis triggers massive response. All done in the opposition to the ever present status quo. And there's A LOT of incrementalism (experimentation). Oregon just adopted (joined) California's carbon strategy. It's basically a complete retool of the Oregon economy. If that goes well, I expect all the other western states will rapidly join in. FWIW, I try to study policy work, after my own efforts led to very modest results. People I know have been far more successful (marriage equality, marijuana, human trafficking, family leave, and much else).
- mistrial9 7y ago
  > Oregon just adopted (joined) California's carbon strategy. link(s) ?
  - specialist 7y ago
    Title: "Oregon is poised to set a cap on greenhouse gas emissions. That’s a huge deal. A “cap and invest” bill would link it to California’s carbon trading market." https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/6/5/18650155/climate-change-oregon-carbon-cap-trade-california https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/6/5/18650155... FWIW: Vox's David Roberts is now my primary climate & carbon pundit. He's just crushing it. And I've become a big fan of "explainer journalism".
    - mistrial9 7y ago
      imagine that - what is in the headlines today.. "Oregon Governor sends State Police after Lawmakers who flee to avoid Carbon Vote"
BurningFrog 7y ago
The climate crisis is still a long term problem. There is no 12 year deadline you hear crazy people scream about. https://reason.com/2019/04/05/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-wrong-th/ https://reason.com/2019/04/05/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-i...

dev_dull 7y ago

And even if WE did implement it quickly and efficiency, and it works as intended, how do you convinced the other countries responsible for the other 85% of global carbon emissions to care?

perfunctory 7y ago
Some other countries have already implemented carbon tax. Some as early as 1991 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax#Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax#Sweden And what about China? Well, if US introduces carbon tax, demanding the same from China would a fair move in the current trade negotiations.
mac01021 7y ago
1) Many of them already claim to care but won't benefit much from any policies they might implement if the US and China and India aren't going to act too. 2) The current carbon pricing bill in the House of Representatives (HR 763 [1][2]) includes border adjustments based on the carbon footprint of imported goods, which will incentivize our trading partners to implement similar policies or reduce their carbon footprints by other means. [1] https://citizensclimatelobby.org/energy-innovation-and-carbon-dividend-act/ https://citizensclimatelobby.org/energy-innovation-and-carbo... [2] https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/763 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/763
chimprich 7y ago
How do you convince the countries responsible for the other 85% if you haven't taken steps yourself? Someone has to lead.

specialist 7y ago

Punctuated equilibrium is an optimistic worldview of policy change. AKA "first a little, then a lot". Meaning big sweeping changes after long periods of apparent inaction. I've never quite understood how it works with evolution, a la Stephen Jay Gould. But with politics, it's basically memetics and attention economy. First, correctly identify the problem. Second, divine some useful plan of action. Third, crisis triggers massive response. All done in the opposition to the ever present status quo. And there's A LOT of incrementalism (experimentation). Oregon just adopted (joined) California's carbon strategy. It's basically a complete retool of the Oregon economy. If that goes well, I expect all the other western states will rapidly join in. FWIW, I try to study policy work, after my own efforts led to very modest results. People I know have been far more successful (marriage equality, marijuana, human trafficking, family leave, and much else).

mistrial9 7y ago
> Oregon just adopted (joined) California's carbon strategy. link(s) ?
- specialist 7y ago
  Title: "Oregon is poised to set a cap on greenhouse gas emissions. That’s a huge deal. A “cap and invest” bill would link it to California’s carbon trading market." https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/6/5/18650155/climate-change-oregon-carbon-cap-trade-california https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/6/5/18650155... FWIW: Vox's David Roberts is now my primary climate & carbon pundit. He's just crushing it. And I've become a big fan of "explainer journalism".
  - mistrial9 7y ago
    imagine that - what is in the headlines today.. "Oregon Governor sends State Police after Lawmakers who flee to avoid Carbon Vote"

BurningFrog 7y ago

The climate crisis is still a long term problem. There is no 12 year deadline you hear crazy people scream about. https://reason.com/2019/04/05/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-wrong-th/ https://reason.com/2019/04/05/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-i...