5 ms·

If my nice car tomorrow comes with a free driver, why would I be less likely to buy/own/use one? Ridesharing is a greenwash smokescreen for an industry that pr

If my nice car tomorrow comes with a free driver, why would I be less likely to buy/own/use one? Ridesharing is a greenwash smokescreen for an industry that predicts yearly driven miles to go up by 300%.

matthewfelgate 7y ago
To begin with, this may be true. But then people will think, why am I spending all this capital buying and keeping my own device when I could use a service when I need.
- bena 7y ago
  Which is why taxis have all but replaced private car ownership in big cities.
  - whenchamenia 7y ago
    Citation desprtely needed.
    - bena 7y ago
      It's sarcasm because that clearly hasn't happened even though taxis are car rides as a service.
raverbashing 7y ago
Because your overall cost will be lower if you just pay for what you use, and it is more convenient to not own it. If you need it for a daily drive (in a low demand route) buying it is probably cheaper, if not, just pay per use.
- matthewfelgate 7y ago
  Everything seems to be going towards "As a service". People who used to buy DVDs now use Netflix. Companies who used to buy serves use AWS.
  - raverbashing 7y ago
    I think new technologies are lowering the cost of offering things "as a service" together with ownership becoming costlier. Owning some things do make sense though https://www.marketplace.org/2017/08/15/business/one-vintage-thing-that-doesnt-appeal-millennials-furniture/ https://www.marketplace.org/2017/08/15/business/one-vintage-...
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    It's ironic that the "land of the free" is spearheading this change. While renting is justified in some cases, each thing you rent instead of owning means signing a contract to abide by, which severely limits what you can do with an item, and means you have yet another party you're beholden to that you have to keep track of. For people without a hired person to manage all these subscriptions, I wonder just how cognitively-taxing a rent/subscribe-everything lifestyle would be.
    - rubinelli 7y ago
      Maintaining your property is often much more cognitively taxing. Consider a car, for example: you have to keep track of oil changes, water, tires, brakes, taxes, insurance, and the list goes on, each with its own schedule.
      - whenchamenia 7y ago
        Which is why I like my own car, I know it has been maintained to the higuest standard. Many ubers are downright frightening to anyone who knows anything about cars, and taxis seldom better.
      - cr0sh 7y ago
        > Consider a car, for example: you have to keep track of oil changes, water, tires, brakes, taxes, insurance, and the list goes on, each with its own schedule. Not sure where you're from, but for me and my two vehicles, it's not really that big of a deal. * Oil - look at sticker on windshield (when I change my own oil, I just erase the sticker and write it myself) * Water - look in the radiator every once in a while; low? Add some coolant (never plain water!) * Tires - look at them every now and again; need air? - add air, tread look too worn? - buy new ones, hear a clicking while driving? stop, and look for rock or nail * Brakes - look and feel, listen for squeaking; if it squeaks, probably hitting the indicator strip - change 'em out. If feeling spongy, flush and refill fluid; pull the tires off (during a rotation) and look at 'em. Rear drums if you have 'em - common on trucks - only need to be checked occasionally - they rarely need to be replaced often unless you haul loads regularly * Taxes - what taxes? I buy used, pay with cash - anything else, you're getting ripped off * Insurance - get the bill, pay the bill I do as much maintenance as I can myself, otherwise if I think it needs to go into the shop - into the shop it goes. Having two vehicles means I don't have to worry about if one is in the shop. Sometimes I've swapped - one car in the shop, get it back, swap the other one in (usually for things I can't handle - things that need a lift or are beyond my skill or tool level). About the only other thing I have to worry about is timing belts, but that's only on one vehicle now (my Jeep has a chain, I'll hear the noise once it wears beyond a certain point - the 4.0 I6 is near indestructible anyhow), and I got it changed when I purchased it, so it's good for 60k, at which point I'll probably need a complete engine overhaul anyhow (given the age of the vehicle - 1999 Isuzu VehiCROSS). I love both of my vehicles, and I can't yet get anything in a hybrid or electric that compares (nor could I afford it, even if it did exist). I sincerely hope that battery tech gains to the point where a charge will get you 600-800 miles (because once you put that tech into a 4wd vehicle, with a lift and 30+ inch tires - that number will drop like a rock). But it ain't there yet, and even when it does happen, I won't be able to afford v1.0 - so I'm sticking with my current vehicles. Plus - I'm hoping my VehiCROSS becomes a collectible; it has all the categories of one, but for some reason, it hasn't quite happened yet. I love driving that beast, tho...
vidarh 7y ago
Conversely, I don't know why people still buy cars in urban areas. Rural, I get. But I've lived in cities all my adult life, and I don't even have a drivers license. It feels like a waste of time, and owning a car feels like a pointless waste of money. Why would I pay to have a car that I need to worry about, including thinking about where it happens to be located when I want a car. I like being able to open up Citymapper, tell it where I want to go, and now they've started not just suggesting Uber and others for the whole ride as an alternative to public transport, but suggesting it for parts of the way. A car you own can't compete with taking you to a train station and picking you up on the other side. Today it takes ~3 minutes on average to get a car to the front of my house. That's with human drivers, spaced out inefficiently. Get driverless, and you can get a mix of ride shares and individual cars based on spacing out cars based on predicted demand and picking the most efficient solution based on customer preferences with very low wait times at even lower cost. Owning a car just can't compete in my eyes. Maybe that's shaped by living in European cities where driving long distances almost never competes favorably with mixing and matching with trains and underground (a typical commute for me in the days I used to commute in to central London would have taken twice as long with car, and maybe ~30% less if a car/rideshare service could guarantee to be here in 3-4 minutes instead of waiting for the bus or walking to the train station; with apps suggesting the best route I'd still take the bus when the wait is low, but know I could start my journey later because I'd have a shorter maximum wait) EDIT: Even more so because parking restrictions are getting stricter and stricter. The London borough where I live won't even entertain planning applications for housing if it includes more than 1.5 parking space per unit. That's expected to drop further as density increases - note that this is not permits for the road etc., but applies whether or not you build your own off street parking. The reason is that restricting parking is seen as a way of discouraging car ownership to reduce demand on surrounding road infrastructure.
- kalleboo 7y ago
  I was 100% with you until I got a kid. And then a second one. With car seats, baby carriages, spare diapers, towels, tissues etc etc the value of having a car always packed with "your stuff" goes up a lot.
  - 7y ago
Tepix 7y ago
Your nice car is expensive and unused 90-95% of the time (if you're an average driver). So, what are reasons not to own a car in the age of self-driving cars? - it could be cheaper for a lot of people - you'd be more flexible: use a small car to commute, a big car for shopping etc. - there would be enough self-driving shared cars available so you never have to wait a long time to arrive - it saves a lot of resources if less cars have to be built and their utilization is higher - you can drive new cars as soon as they are added to the pool of shared cars - you don't have to deal with car maintenance - you are more likely to use your bicycle / ebike Here are some reasons against using shared cars: - mass surveillance - monitoring the movement of almost every citizen - shared cars may not be as clean as your own - can't store items in shared cars (baby seats!) - favourite car may not be available all the time - there may not be enough shared cars avaialble in your area, especially if you don't live in a city - you have special requirements such as baby seats, 4WD or you want to drive a particular car model all the time - prestige
- indymike 7y ago
  You left three out: - Being able to get where you need to go without requesting a ride. - Your own car will wait with infinite patience. - Kids
  - Tepix 7y ago
    > - Being able to get where you need to go without requesting a ride. If your car has parked far away from your location you need to "request" it just like a shared car. > - Your own car will wait with infinite patience. That could be useful every now and then. But not very important on my list if the waiting time is small enough. > - Kids I mentioned baby seats. But the availability of shared cars could mean that you can drop off multiple kids at multiple locations using multiple cars all at once.
    - yellowapple 7y ago
      > If your car has parked far away from your location you need to "request" it just like a shared car. Sure, but you'd be the only one requesting it, as opposed to a bunch of other people requesting it, too.

matthewfelgate 7y ago

To begin with, this may be true. But then people will think, why am I spending all this capital buying and keeping my own device when I could use a service when I need.

bena 7y ago
Which is why taxis have all but replaced private car ownership in big cities.
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  Citation desprtely needed.
  - bena 7y ago
    It's sarcasm because that clearly hasn't happened even though taxis are car rides as a service.

raverbashing 7y ago

Because your overall cost will be lower if you just pay for what you use, and it is more convenient to not own it. If you need it for a daily drive (in a low demand route) buying it is probably cheaper, if not, just pay per use.

matthewfelgate 7y ago
Everything seems to be going towards "As a service". People who used to buy DVDs now use Netflix. Companies who used to buy serves use AWS.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  I think new technologies are lowering the cost of offering things "as a service" together with ownership becoming costlier. Owning some things do make sense though https://www.marketplace.org/2017/08/15/business/one-vintage-thing-that-doesnt-appeal-millennials-furniture/ https://www.marketplace.org/2017/08/15/business/one-vintage-...
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  It's ironic that the "land of the free" is spearheading this change. While renting is justified in some cases, each thing you rent instead of owning means signing a contract to abide by, which severely limits what you can do with an item, and means you have yet another party you're beholden to that you have to keep track of. For people without a hired person to manage all these subscriptions, I wonder just how cognitively-taxing a rent/subscribe-everything lifestyle would be.
  - rubinelli 7y ago
    Maintaining your property is often much more cognitively taxing. Consider a car, for example: you have to keep track of oil changes, water, tires, brakes, taxes, insurance, and the list goes on, each with its own schedule.
    - whenchamenia 7y ago
      Which is why I like my own car, I know it has been maintained to the higuest standard. Many ubers are downright frightening to anyone who knows anything about cars, and taxis seldom better.
    - cr0sh 7y ago
      > Consider a car, for example: you have to keep track of oil changes, water, tires, brakes, taxes, insurance, and the list goes on, each with its own schedule. Not sure where you're from, but for me and my two vehicles, it's not really that big of a deal. * Oil - look at sticker on windshield (when I change my own oil, I just erase the sticker and write it myself) * Water - look in the radiator every once in a while; low? Add some coolant (never plain water!) * Tires - look at them every now and again; need air? - add air, tread look too worn? - buy new ones, hear a clicking while driving? stop, and look for rock or nail * Brakes - look and feel, listen for squeaking; if it squeaks, probably hitting the indicator strip - change 'em out. If feeling spongy, flush and refill fluid; pull the tires off (during a rotation) and look at 'em. Rear drums if you have 'em - common on trucks - only need to be checked occasionally - they rarely need to be replaced often unless you haul loads regularly * Taxes - what taxes? I buy used, pay with cash - anything else, you're getting ripped off * Insurance - get the bill, pay the bill I do as much maintenance as I can myself, otherwise if I think it needs to go into the shop - into the shop it goes. Having two vehicles means I don't have to worry about if one is in the shop. Sometimes I've swapped - one car in the shop, get it back, swap the other one in (usually for things I can't handle - things that need a lift or are beyond my skill or tool level). About the only other thing I have to worry about is timing belts, but that's only on one vehicle now (my Jeep has a chain, I'll hear the noise once it wears beyond a certain point - the 4.0 I6 is near indestructible anyhow), and I got it changed when I purchased it, so it's good for 60k, at which point I'll probably need a complete engine overhaul anyhow (given the age of the vehicle - 1999 Isuzu VehiCROSS). I love both of my vehicles, and I can't yet get anything in a hybrid or electric that compares (nor could I afford it, even if it did exist). I sincerely hope that battery tech gains to the point where a charge will get you 600-800 miles (because once you put that tech into a 4wd vehicle, with a lift and 30+ inch tires - that number will drop like a rock). But it ain't there yet, and even when it does happen, I won't be able to afford v1.0 - so I'm sticking with my current vehicles. Plus - I'm hoping my VehiCROSS becomes a collectible; it has all the categories of one, but for some reason, it hasn't quite happened yet. I love driving that beast, tho...

vidarh 7y ago

Conversely, I don't know why people still buy cars in urban areas. Rural, I get. But I've lived in cities all my adult life, and I don't even have a drivers license. It feels like a waste of time, and owning a car feels like a pointless waste of money. Why would I pay to have a car that I need to worry about, including thinking about where it happens to be located when I want a car. I like being able to open up Citymapper, tell it where I want to go, and now they've started not just suggesting Uber and others for the whole ride as an alternative to public transport, but suggesting it for parts of the way. A car you own can't compete with taking you to a train station and picking you up on the other side. Today it takes ~3 minutes on average to get a car to the front of my house. That's with human drivers, spaced out inefficiently. Get driverless, and you can get a mix of ride shares and individual cars based on spacing out cars based on predicted demand and picking the most efficient solution based on customer preferences with very low wait times at even lower cost. Owning a car just can't compete in my eyes. Maybe that's shaped by living in European cities where driving long distances almost never competes favorably with mixing and matching with trains and underground (a typical commute for me in the days I used to commute in to central London would have taken twice as long with car, and maybe ~30% less if a car/rideshare service could guarantee to be here in 3-4 minutes instead of waiting for the bus or walking to the train station; with apps suggesting the best route I'd still take the bus when the wait is low, but know I could start my journey later because I'd have a shorter maximum wait) EDIT: Even more so because parking restrictions are getting stricter and stricter. The London borough where I live won't even entertain planning applications for housing if it includes more than 1.5 parking space per unit. That's expected to drop further as density increases - note that this is not permits for the road etc., but applies whether or not you build your own off street parking. The reason is that restricting parking is seen as a way of discouraging car ownership to reduce demand on surrounding road infrastructure.

kalleboo 7y ago
I was 100% with you until I got a kid. And then a second one. With car seats, baby carriages, spare diapers, towels, tissues etc etc the value of having a car always packed with "your stuff" goes up a lot.
- 7y ago

Tepix 7y ago

Your nice car is expensive and unused 90-95% of the time (if you're an average driver). So, what are reasons not to own a car in the age of self-driving cars? - it could be cheaper for a lot of people - you'd be more flexible: use a small car to commute, a big car for shopping etc. - there would be enough self-driving shared cars available so you never have to wait a long time to arrive - it saves a lot of resources if less cars have to be built and their utilization is higher - you can drive new cars as soon as they are added to the pool of shared cars - you don't have to deal with car maintenance - you are more likely to use your bicycle / ebike Here are some reasons against using shared cars: - mass surveillance - monitoring the movement of almost every citizen - shared cars may not be as clean as your own - can't store items in shared cars (baby seats!) - favourite car may not be available all the time - there may not be enough shared cars avaialble in your area, especially if you don't live in a city - you have special requirements such as baby seats, 4WD or you want to drive a particular car model all the time - prestige

indymike 7y ago
You left three out: - Being able to get where you need to go without requesting a ride. - Your own car will wait with infinite patience. - Kids
- Tepix 7y ago
  > - Being able to get where you need to go without requesting a ride. If your car has parked far away from your location you need to "request" it just like a shared car. > - Your own car will wait with infinite patience. That could be useful every now and then. But not very important on my list if the waiting time is small enough. > - Kids I mentioned baby seats. But the availability of shared cars could mean that you can drop off multiple kids at multiple locations using multiple cars all at once.
  - yellowapple 7y ago
    > If your car has parked far away from your location you need to "request" it just like a shared car. Sure, but you'd be the only one requesting it, as opposed to a bunch of other people requesting it, too.