4 ms·

Redfin is already in that market and it doesn't seem to be doing very well. I'm actually fairly surprised how slow redfin is able to grow and expand their marke

Redfin is already in that market and it doesn't seem to be doing very well. I'm actually fairly surprised how slow redfin is able to grow and expand their market. Their website felt second to none in terms of usability.

civility 7y ago
Redfin looks like they're trying to be a "discount agent". Here is a quote from their front page: > We're full-service, local agents who get to know you over coffee and on home tours, and we use online tools to make you smarter and faster. This isn't what I had in mind at all, and I'm not surprised they have trouble getting traction with that approach. If they save you 1.5% on your half, but the other agent still gets their 3%, you'd only save 25% of the thousands you spent in middle man costs. Meanwhile, all the 3% agents out there are applying pressure to see it fail. In the ideal case where they get both sides, Redfin is only saving you 50%. There is no reason home sale paperwork should cost thousands of dollars to process. Someone like Amazon could eliminate agents altogether. Here is another analogy - imagine TurboTax charged you a percentage of your yearly income instead of a hundred dollars for the "Deluxe" version. That would be insane.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  > There is no reason home sale paperwork should cost thousands of dollars to process. Someone like Amazon could eliminate agents altogether. It’s a mistake to think that the real estate commission is primarily for paperwork or executing transactions that would have happened anyway. I brought my house to our agent and pushed the sale through. That’s probably a rarity when I think about all the time friends of mine have spent with agents “house hunting”. That time costs money and to a great extent, the fat commissions are paying for a lot of “no commissions”. People seeking to disrupt the “fill out the final transactional paperwork” part of real estate need to figure out how to disrupt the whole value chain, not just the part that looks outrageously overpriced.
  - dagw 7y ago
    In Sweden agents that help with house hunting basically don't exist outside the very very top end of the market. Everybody finds their own houses via ads, book their own viewings with the sellers agent and handles the bidding process themselves. When it comes to paper work the buyer and seller "shares" the same agent who has a fiduciary duty to both parties (even though they're paid by the sellers). With the internet being what it is people should be able to "hunt" their own houses and set up their own viewings.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      Not everyone is internet savvy. Not everyone knows what they want. Not everyone knows what they can afford. Not everyone comes from a history of property ownership. Some people need assistance on things that others can self-serve.
      - civility 7y ago
        Yes, not everyone can read or use a computer. And yet almost everyone pays for all those realtor services they don't need or even use.
      - astura 7y ago
        Real estate agents, even the so-called "buyer's agent," are the house equivalent of "used car salesman." Just like you shouldn't trust a used car salesman to tell you what car would fit your needs and you can afford, you shouldn't trust a real estate agent to tell you what house would fit your needs and you can afford.
  - civility 7y ago
    I've bought 3 homes now and sold 2. There was no "house hunting" process. I went online, looked at photos, and made an offer - same as you. On my second home, I told the realtor exactly what I wanted and where. She failed to find it in her search (she did a zip code search instead of looking at the map), so I showed her the listing I wanted to see. There was no extra value to justify 3% of a sale for hundreds of thousands of dollars. As for the seller's agent? They put the listing on MLS and have a token "open house" for a couple hours on one day. If you're lucky, they get a professional photographer and print a few brochures for the walk throughs. > People seeking to disrupt the “fill out the final transactional paperwork” part of real estate need to figure out how to disrupt the whole value chain, not just the part that looks outrageously overpriced. Why is that? Why not focus on fixing the worst part of the problem?
ralph84 7y ago
FlyHomes is doing something interesting by actually buying and selling houses, not just facilitating transactions. It takes a lot of the risk and uncertainty out of the process. I hope they can succeed at scale.
- civility 7y ago
  What rate do they charge? It looks like they provide a cash offer and then find financing so you can buy it from them. I didn't see anything about how this eliminates middle-men and egregious fees. I'm not sure though, because I got a "Oops, something went wrong" popup when I tried to use their site.
  - civility 7y ago
    I just found their quote: > Flyhomes makes money through the commission paid by the home’s seller. This is the same lie all realtors love to throw out. "You don't pay - the seller does!". Never mind the buyer is the only person who brings money to the transaction. Unless that commission is much smaller than a traditional realtor, I hope they fail.
    - ralph84 7y ago
      There are more ways to innovate than just offer the same thing for less money. You can offer more things for the same money, which is what FlyHomes is doing. That is actually the more common and more financially viable form of innovation.
      - civility 7y ago
        You're right, of course. However in this case, I'd like to see someone fix the problem instead of just making it more palatable. To me FlyHomes looks like just another realtor who screws you for too much money, but they give you flowers before they start and candy when they're done.

civility 7y ago

Redfin looks like they're trying to be a "discount agent". Here is a quote from their front page: > We're full-service, local agents who get to know you over coffee and on home tours, and we use online tools to make you smarter and faster. This isn't what I had in mind at all, and I'm not surprised they have trouble getting traction with that approach. If they save you 1.5% on your half, but the other agent still gets their 3%, you'd only save 25% of the thousands you spent in middle man costs. Meanwhile, all the 3% agents out there are applying pressure to see it fail. In the ideal case where they get both sides, Redfin is only saving you 50%. There is no reason home sale paperwork should cost thousands of dollars to process. Someone like Amazon could eliminate agents altogether. Here is another analogy - imagine TurboTax charged you a percentage of your yearly income instead of a hundred dollars for the "Deluxe" version. That would be insane.

sokoloff 7y ago
> There is no reason home sale paperwork should cost thousands of dollars to process. Someone like Amazon could eliminate agents altogether. It’s a mistake to think that the real estate commission is primarily for paperwork or executing transactions that would have happened anyway. I brought my house to our agent and pushed the sale through. That’s probably a rarity when I think about all the time friends of mine have spent with agents “house hunting”. That time costs money and to a great extent, the fat commissions are paying for a lot of “no commissions”. People seeking to disrupt the “fill out the final transactional paperwork” part of real estate need to figure out how to disrupt the whole value chain, not just the part that looks outrageously overpriced.
- dagw 7y ago
  In Sweden agents that help with house hunting basically don't exist outside the very very top end of the market. Everybody finds their own houses via ads, book their own viewings with the sellers agent and handles the bidding process themselves. When it comes to paper work the buyer and seller "shares" the same agent who has a fiduciary duty to both parties (even though they're paid by the sellers). With the internet being what it is people should be able to "hunt" their own houses and set up their own viewings.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    Not everyone is internet savvy. Not everyone knows what they want. Not everyone knows what they can afford. Not everyone comes from a history of property ownership. Some people need assistance on things that others can self-serve.
    - civility 7y ago
      Yes, not everyone can read or use a computer. And yet almost everyone pays for all those realtor services they don't need or even use.
    - astura 7y ago
      Real estate agents, even the so-called "buyer's agent," are the house equivalent of "used car salesman." Just like you shouldn't trust a used car salesman to tell you what car would fit your needs and you can afford, you shouldn't trust a real estate agent to tell you what house would fit your needs and you can afford.
- civility 7y ago
  I've bought 3 homes now and sold 2. There was no "house hunting" process. I went online, looked at photos, and made an offer - same as you. On my second home, I told the realtor exactly what I wanted and where. She failed to find it in her search (she did a zip code search instead of looking at the map), so I showed her the listing I wanted to see. There was no extra value to justify 3% of a sale for hundreds of thousands of dollars. As for the seller's agent? They put the listing on MLS and have a token "open house" for a couple hours on one day. If you're lucky, they get a professional photographer and print a few brochures for the walk throughs. > People seeking to disrupt the “fill out the final transactional paperwork” part of real estate need to figure out how to disrupt the whole value chain, not just the part that looks outrageously overpriced. Why is that? Why not focus on fixing the worst part of the problem?

ralph84 7y ago

FlyHomes is doing something interesting by actually buying and selling houses, not just facilitating transactions. It takes a lot of the risk and uncertainty out of the process. I hope they can succeed at scale.

civility 7y ago
What rate do they charge? It looks like they provide a cash offer and then find financing so you can buy it from them. I didn't see anything about how this eliminates middle-men and egregious fees. I'm not sure though, because I got a "Oops, something went wrong" popup when I tried to use their site.
- civility 7y ago
  I just found their quote: > Flyhomes makes money through the commission paid by the home’s seller. This is the same lie all realtors love to throw out. "You don't pay - the seller does!". Never mind the buyer is the only person who brings money to the transaction. Unless that commission is much smaller than a traditional realtor, I hope they fail.
  - ralph84 7y ago
    There are more ways to innovate than just offer the same thing for less money. You can offer more things for the same money, which is what FlyHomes is doing. That is actually the more common and more financially viable form of innovation.
    - civility 7y ago
      You're right, of course. However in this case, I'd like to see someone fix the problem instead of just making it more palatable. To me FlyHomes looks like just another realtor who screws you for too much money, but they give you flowers before they start and candy when they're done.