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I think a better real-world example would be paying a third-party for a billboard near a competitor's location. Nobody's rights are violated by that. There's n

by Zak 7y ago

I think a better real-world example would be paying a third-party for a billboard near a competitor's location. Nobody's rights are violated by that. There's no conflict of business interests. That's just competition. I think it's the same with running ads against searches for a competitor; Google does not take payment for search placement nor provide unrelated benefits to paid users of its services.

gamblor956 7y ago
There's no conflict of business interests. That's just competition. I think it's the same with running ads against searches for a competitor; Google does not take payment for search placement nor provide unrelated benefits to paid users of its services. This is (now) wrong. Google search-rank ads show up in the search results with only minor indicia that they are ads. This is very different from what Google used to do--keep ads and search results separate with clear visual indications of what content was ads.
- Zak 7y ago
  I wasn't aware of that (I always use adblockers). I don't like that at all, and after reading it I'm now expecting Google products to try to trick me into doing things that are profitable for Google, which Google knows were not my intent.
- nostrademons 7y ago
  Is that actually true? I just searched for [flowers] and [car insurance], two notoriously commercial queries, and the ads were all labeled with "Ad" in a green box, with organic results below the fold. While you might take issue with all the above-the-fold space being taken up by advertisements and local results, I don't think you can get much clearer than having each advertisement say "Ad". That's a lot more distinction than you get with say TV or print ads.
  - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
    I totally disagree with the statement "I don't think you can get much clearer than having each advertisement say "Ad"." If you want much clearer, just look at Google circa around 15 years ago, where ads had a much greater visual distinction with a blue background color, or in the right gutter. And, of course, Google knows this. The past 10-15 years has seen a sea change where ads look more and more like natural search results, and as they've taken up more and more real estate. It used to be you could compete with having good SEO positioning, but now SEO positioning is almost irrelevant for any commercial terms (except for how it affects your AdWords bidding positioning), as basically everything above the fold is just ads now.
  - Zak 7y ago
    The design pushing organic search results down does seem like a conflict of interest between showing the user the best possible search results and showing the user advertisements. On a 1200px tall desktop screen with adblocking turned off, I see four ads that look like search results with a small "Ad" marker next to them, then a map. One map search result is visible on the first screen. When I scroll, there are three map search results, then three organic web search results. These are followed by four suggested queries, three more organic web search results, then four news stories before I get to the rest of the results. I'm not sure I'd call this evil, but Google used to be explicitly anti-evil and this is very much not that.
  - dillondoyle 7y ago
    Lol I just tried, literally every single clickable result (well ok 98% the bottom map listing that is only partially showing) is paid. The right side bar boxes are hard to tell they are an ad, and I would bet $1000 that 90% (or more) of users wont even know the top results with green ad notation is not an organic result. search screenshot: https://imgur.com/Qhw2tgY https://imgur.com/Qhw2tgY
    - nostrademons 7y ago
      Interesting. Brave blocks the RHS ads.
will_brown 7y ago
The difference is now one is heavily investing their business in the billboard business to ultimately be placed behind the billboard. >There's no conflict of business interests. This is big time a conflict, look no further than the antitrust investigations. Google is known to use their market position (data) to launch businesses in high dollar keyword industries and have their product rise to the top organically and upbid keyword on market incumbents forcing them to pay up or lose position to google products. To say google doesn’t pay for search placement is a play with words, they take payment for ads that take the shape and form of results and appear above organic results (I’ll call it true #1), organic search results are not paid for...with the exception google sets the rules, and their is heavy buyin/investment from the company’s to obtain #1 organic placement, not to mention the seo rules generally reward and promote use of other google services/buyin.

by Zak 7y ago

gamblor956 7y ago

There's no conflict of business interests. That's just competition. I think it's the same with running ads against searches for a competitor; Google does not take payment for search placement nor provide unrelated benefits to paid users of its services. This is (now) wrong. Google search-rank ads show up in the search results with only minor indicia that they are ads. This is very different from what Google used to do--keep ads and search results separate with clear visual indications of what content was ads.

Zak 7y ago
I wasn't aware of that (I always use adblockers). I don't like that at all, and after reading it I'm now expecting Google products to try to trick me into doing things that are profitable for Google, which Google knows were not my intent.
nostrademons 7y ago
Is that actually true? I just searched for [flowers] and [car insurance], two notoriously commercial queries, and the ads were all labeled with "Ad" in a green box, with organic results below the fold. While you might take issue with all the above-the-fold space being taken up by advertisements and local results, I don't think you can get much clearer than having each advertisement say "Ad". That's a lot more distinction than you get with say TV or print ads.
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  I totally disagree with the statement "I don't think you can get much clearer than having each advertisement say "Ad"." If you want much clearer, just look at Google circa around 15 years ago, where ads had a much greater visual distinction with a blue background color, or in the right gutter. And, of course, Google knows this. The past 10-15 years has seen a sea change where ads look more and more like natural search results, and as they've taken up more and more real estate. It used to be you could compete with having good SEO positioning, but now SEO positioning is almost irrelevant for any commercial terms (except for how it affects your AdWords bidding positioning), as basically everything above the fold is just ads now.
- Zak 7y ago
  The design pushing organic search results down does seem like a conflict of interest between showing the user the best possible search results and showing the user advertisements. On a 1200px tall desktop screen with adblocking turned off, I see four ads that look like search results with a small "Ad" marker next to them, then a map. One map search result is visible on the first screen. When I scroll, there are three map search results, then three organic web search results. These are followed by four suggested queries, three more organic web search results, then four news stories before I get to the rest of the results. I'm not sure I'd call this evil, but Google used to be explicitly anti-evil and this is very much not that.
- dillondoyle 7y ago
  Lol I just tried, literally every single clickable result (well ok 98% the bottom map listing that is only partially showing) is paid. The right side bar boxes are hard to tell they are an ad, and I would bet $1000 that 90% (or more) of users wont even know the top results with green ad notation is not an organic result. search screenshot: https://imgur.com/Qhw2tgY https://imgur.com/Qhw2tgY
  - nostrademons 7y ago
    Interesting. Brave blocks the RHS ads.

will_brown 7y ago

The difference is now one is heavily investing their business in the billboard business to ultimately be placed behind the billboard. >There's no conflict of business interests. This is big time a conflict, look no further than the antitrust investigations. Google is known to use their market position (data) to launch businesses in high dollar keyword industries and have their product rise to the top organically and upbid keyword on market incumbents forcing them to pay up or lose position to google products. To say google doesn’t pay for search placement is a play with words, they take payment for ads that take the shape and form of results and appear above organic results (I’ll call it true #1), organic search results are not paid for...with the exception google sets the rules, and their is heavy buyin/investment from the company’s to obtain #1 organic placement, not to mention the seo rules generally reward and promote use of other google services/buyin.