3 ms·

1) Good post, but there is no "inequity" in GOP length, is there? The paper says "for all encoding technologies, each sequence was split into chunks of one Intr

by motbob 7y ago

1) Good post, but there is no "inequity" in GOP length, is there? The paper says "for all encoding technologies, each sequence was split into chunks of one Intra period." 2) I also don't really see why this would inherently disadvantage AV1, though obviously it would dampen any efficiency gain. (Why would it dampen it? Because it's not like one encoder is going to draw keyframes way more efficiently than another encoder, and as you lower GOP size, way more of the filesize gets taken up by keyframes, proportionally). 3) One-second GOPs are pretty out there, but we do live in a world where two-second GOPs aren't that unusual, so it's not that crazy.

zbobet2012 7y ago
Apologies that should be "inequity caused by gop length" 1) AV1 has significant advantages in its inter compression vs HM. AV1 also has explicit tools for dealing with short GOPs that where not tested. See: https://jmvalin.ca/papers/AV1_tools.pdf https://jmvalin.ca/papers/AV1_tools.pdf for inter prediction. 2) AV1 and HM both have a different set of tools for intra prediction and as such different coding efficiency on key frames. 3) Yeah and two second gops are really bad for video quality. 4-6s is far more common except on latency sensitive applications. I'll also point out that the reported MOS scores have several oddities, like an 8mbps av1 stream being rates lower than it's own 6mbps stream.
- motbob 7y ago
  >I'll also point out that the reported MOS scores have several oddities, like an 8mbps av1 stream being rates lower than it's own 6mbps stream. That reminds me of the old, hilariously broken ffmpeg AAC encoder where increasing the bitrate decreased the quality after a certain point, at least in my tests. So although my guess at what would be causing weird stuff like this would certainly be bad testing methodology by BBC rather than a quirk in the encoder, there's a non-zero chance that I'd be wrong.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  Not to mention 1-second GOPs are ludicrous for a broadcast/ondemand publisher like the BBC. However, I think libaom performance was the deciding factor for this. They say right there that they chose this arrangement because it would allow them to deliver 10s chunks with reasonable latency. With SVT-AV1 and appropriate hardware, there's no reason they couldn't do 10s like they should, and in that case AV1 would probably shine.
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    > Not to mention 1-second GOPs are ludicrous for a broadcast/ondemand publisher like the BBC. Twitch (and others) is looking into optimizing for live steaming. A good comment with links from last year: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16797590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16797590
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > 4-6s is far more common except on latency sensitive applications. Twitch (and others) is looking into optimizing for live steaming. A good comment with links from last year: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16797590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16797590

by motbob 7y ago

zbobet2012 7y ago

Apologies that should be "inequity caused by gop length" 1) AV1 has significant advantages in its inter compression vs HM. AV1 also has explicit tools for dealing with short GOPs that where not tested. See: https://jmvalin.ca/papers/AV1_tools.pdf https://jmvalin.ca/papers/AV1_tools.pdf for inter prediction. 2) AV1 and HM both have a different set of tools for intra prediction and as such different coding efficiency on key frames. 3) Yeah and two second gops are really bad for video quality. 4-6s is far more common except on latency sensitive applications. I'll also point out that the reported MOS scores have several oddities, like an 8mbps av1 stream being rates lower than it's own 6mbps stream.

motbob 7y ago
>I'll also point out that the reported MOS scores have several oddities, like an 8mbps av1 stream being rates lower than it's own 6mbps stream. That reminds me of the old, hilariously broken ffmpeg AAC encoder where increasing the bitrate decreased the quality after a certain point, at least in my tests. So although my guess at what would be causing weird stuff like this would certainly be bad testing methodology by BBC rather than a quirk in the encoder, there's a non-zero chance that I'd be wrong.
microcolonel 7y ago
Not to mention 1-second GOPs are ludicrous for a broadcast/ondemand publisher like the BBC. However, I think libaom performance was the deciding factor for this. They say right there that they chose this arrangement because it would allow them to deliver 10s chunks with reasonable latency. With SVT-AV1 and appropriate hardware, there's no reason they couldn't do 10s like they should, and in that case AV1 would probably shine.
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > Not to mention 1-second GOPs are ludicrous for a broadcast/ondemand publisher like the BBC. Twitch (and others) is looking into optimizing for live steaming. A good comment with links from last year: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16797590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16797590
throw0101a 7y ago
> 4-6s is far more common except on latency sensitive applications. Twitch (and others) is looking into optimizing for live steaming. A good comment with links from last year: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16797590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16797590