5 ms·

Here's an article over the cartoon mentioned here that sparked outrage in April which led to this: https://nypost.com/2019/04/28/new-york-times-condemned-for-a

Here's an article over the cartoon mentioned here that sparked outrage in April which led to this: https://nypost.com/2019/04/28/new-york-times-condemned-for-anti-semitic-netanyahu-trump-cartoon/ https://nypost.com/2019/04/28/new-york-times-condemned-for-a...

nerpderp82 7y ago
Can someone explain how the cartoon is antisemetic? Calling it such doesn't make it so. If I blend Putin into a Cassowary crossed with a Peacock would it not be apropos? Cartoons are supposed to be edgy and uncomfortable. It looks like like the NYT succumbed to the mob whipped up by the Trump administration, it meerly doesn't want the criticism.
- Chlatstibur 7y ago
  I would recommend this article [1] that explains the background of why the cartoon is problematic. For an analogy: Drawing Trump as a banana eating ape would not raise eyes, while drawing Obama like this undoubtedly would. [1] https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/285781/soviet-anti-semitic-cartoons https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/285781/sov...
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  Showing a non-Jewish world leader in a yarmulke put it a bit over the top for me. I think the star of David was fair game because it's a symbol of Israel as a country, but depicting Trump as some sort of crypto-Jew felt like imagery you'd see in Nazi propaganda or an illustrated version of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
  - ikeyany 7y ago
    The idea is that Trump is working for Israel. What in the world is a crypto-Jew? Does it use a blockchain?
    - dbcurtis 7y ago
      > What in the world is a crypto-Jew? LMGTFY: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-Judaism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-Judaism Staying out of sight to stay alive, basically.
      - ikeyany 7y ago
        Oh...I don't think anyone relevant seriously thinks he's a crypto-Jew. People just think he's spineless and is easily manipulatable by Putin/Kim/Netanyahu.
        prepend 7y ago
        Do you think it is strange how he is so easily manipulated but yet Shumer and Pelosi and his own staff and many others fail to manipulate him? This seems like such an odd, easily disproved statement that I am surprised when so many repeat it. I’m not a fan, but it seems more like his regular failure than some manipulation trait.
    - OJFord 7y ago
      'Crypto' as a prefix means that <thing being prefixed> is done in secret. Wikipedia lists some common ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Crypto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Crypto It's like neo- (new) or proto- (earliest form of).
    - Rebelgecko 7y ago
      Crypto Jews are people that profess to follow other religions while secretly being Jewish. Clearly there's a range of personal beliefs on this topic, but in my eyes a cartoon saying that Israel has undue influence on the US is A-OK. Even if you don't agree with the cartoon's premise, there's a reasonable debate that can be had. A cartoon saying that the Jews have an undue influence on the US is where things get yucky. The inclusion of apolitical religious symbols instead of national or even Zionist ones is what leads me to think that the cartoon is referring to the latter scenario. I don't think doing things like including the Star of David or using a dog as a caricature are inherently anti-Semetic, it just displays a lack of awareness or sensitivity to how those images have been used in the past. But using them in conjunction with the yarmulke leads me to think the cartoon is trying to say that Trump has somehow been infected by the virality of Jewishness, not just by Israeli interests as some of the defenders of the cartoon are saying.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    Trump did wear one, when he became the first US president to visit the Western Wall: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-becomes-the-first-sitting-us-president-to-visit-the-western-wall https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-becomes-the-first-s...
    - Rebelgecko 7y ago
      Obama and Clinton both wore yarmulkes when they visited the Western Wall— Obama actually complained about how he felt that Arab media used pictures of him in a yarmulke for propaganda purposes. I personally doubt that the reason that the cartoonist put a yarmulke on Trump is because he wore a yarmulke one time back in 2017.
      - icebraining 7y ago
        Neither Obama nor Clinton wore it as presidents. The cartoonist finds that a relevant fact.
        Rebelgecko 7y ago
        Why does it matter that Obama wore one while he was campaigning and Trump waited until he was actually elected?
- njharman 7y ago
  Anything that does not praise Israel is antisemetic. More accurately such will be labeled as antisemetic by various special interest groups to further their own agendas and occasionally get picked up and amplified by the rage mob.
- prepend 7y ago
  I don’t think it is directly anti-Semitic, but is similar to other things that are. So it makes me uneasy that perhaps the author was trying to cloak anti-semitism. I felt similar when political cartoons were made picturing Obama as a monkey even if the surface was non-racist. I thought I remembered a “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” cartoon but could not find it. Even though the cartoon wasn’t technically racist, I didn’t like it because it could easily be cover for genuine racial bigotry.
benj111 7y ago
Is it actually anti Semitic to portray a (Jewish) head of state as a (guide) dog? I'm going by the description here, rather than the actual imagery, but as described it doesn't seem to me to anti Semitic.
- jeremyjh 7y ago
  I haven't see the cartoon, but the link above describes it as "Netanyahu as a guide dog leading a blind President Trump in a skullcap." If you want to make a statement that the US blindly supports Israel, that is not in itself anti-Semitic. But why put Trump in a skullcap?
  - benj111 7y ago
    Perhaps. To me though, if you go with that interpretation, the cartoon isn't anti Jewish (/Israel), its anti Trump, and a skull cap isn't inherently insulting, unless it's insulting to Jews that Trump is Jewish?
    - Litmus2336 7y ago
      Trump isn't Jewish.
- diydsp 7y ago
  No. Antizionism, anti-Israel, etc is not Anti-Semitic. Israel is a politic nation-state, subject to critique just like Zimbabwe or Australia. It's not equivalent to the culture, race or religion of Judaism. Many Jews disagree with the Israeli government's actions. But don't just take my word for it. This has been a long-debated topic. take a look at both sides: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=antizionim+is+not+antisemitic&t=ffsb&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=antizionim+is+not+antisemitic&t=ff...
- refurb 7y ago
  The sensitivity is around similar images being used by Nazi Germany to depict jews as rats, lice, etc. I can see why people see the parallels.

nerpderp82 7y ago

Can someone explain how the cartoon is antisemetic? Calling it such doesn't make it so. If I blend Putin into a Cassowary crossed with a Peacock would it not be apropos? Cartoons are supposed to be edgy and uncomfortable. It looks like like the NYT succumbed to the mob whipped up by the Trump administration, it meerly doesn't want the criticism.

Chlatstibur 7y ago
I would recommend this article [1] that explains the background of why the cartoon is problematic. For an analogy: Drawing Trump as a banana eating ape would not raise eyes, while drawing Obama like this undoubtedly would. [1] https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/285781/soviet-anti-semitic-cartoons https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/285781/sov...
Rebelgecko 7y ago
Showing a non-Jewish world leader in a yarmulke put it a bit over the top for me. I think the star of David was fair game because it's a symbol of Israel as a country, but depicting Trump as some sort of crypto-Jew felt like imagery you'd see in Nazi propaganda or an illustrated version of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
- ikeyany 7y ago
  The idea is that Trump is working for Israel. What in the world is a crypto-Jew? Does it use a blockchain?
  - dbcurtis 7y ago
    > What in the world is a crypto-Jew? LMGTFY: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-Judaism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-Judaism Staying out of sight to stay alive, basically.
    - ikeyany 7y ago
      Oh...I don't think anyone relevant seriously thinks he's a crypto-Jew. People just think he's spineless and is easily manipulatable by Putin/Kim/Netanyahu.
      - prepend 7y ago
        Do you think it is strange how he is so easily manipulated but yet Shumer and Pelosi and his own staff and many others fail to manipulate him? This seems like such an odd, easily disproved statement that I am surprised when so many repeat it. I’m not a fan, but it seems more like his regular failure than some manipulation trait.
  - OJFord 7y ago
    'Crypto' as a prefix means that <thing being prefixed> is done in secret. Wikipedia lists some common ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Crypto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Crypto It's like neo- (new) or proto- (earliest form of).
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    Crypto Jews are people that profess to follow other religions while secretly being Jewish. Clearly there's a range of personal beliefs on this topic, but in my eyes a cartoon saying that Israel has undue influence on the US is A-OK. Even if you don't agree with the cartoon's premise, there's a reasonable debate that can be had. A cartoon saying that the Jews have an undue influence on the US is where things get yucky. The inclusion of apolitical religious symbols instead of national or even Zionist ones is what leads me to think that the cartoon is referring to the latter scenario. I don't think doing things like including the Star of David or using a dog as a caricature are inherently anti-Semetic, it just displays a lack of awareness or sensitivity to how those images have been used in the past. But using them in conjunction with the yarmulke leads me to think the cartoon is trying to say that Trump has somehow been infected by the virality of Jewishness, not just by Israeli interests as some of the defenders of the cartoon are saying.
- icebraining 7y ago
  Trump did wear one, when he became the first US president to visit the Western Wall: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-becomes-the-first-sitting-us-president-to-visit-the-western-wall https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-becomes-the-first-s...
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    Obama and Clinton both wore yarmulkes when they visited the Western Wall— Obama actually complained about how he felt that Arab media used pictures of him in a yarmulke for propaganda purposes. I personally doubt that the reason that the cartoonist put a yarmulke on Trump is because he wore a yarmulke one time back in 2017.
    - icebraining 7y ago
      Neither Obama nor Clinton wore it as presidents. The cartoonist finds that a relevant fact.
      - Rebelgecko 7y ago
        Why does it matter that Obama wore one while he was campaigning and Trump waited until he was actually elected?
njharman 7y ago
Anything that does not praise Israel is antisemetic. More accurately such will be labeled as antisemetic by various special interest groups to further their own agendas and occasionally get picked up and amplified by the rage mob.
prepend 7y ago
I don’t think it is directly anti-Semitic, but is similar to other things that are. So it makes me uneasy that perhaps the author was trying to cloak anti-semitism. I felt similar when political cartoons were made picturing Obama as a monkey even if the surface was non-racist. I thought I remembered a “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” cartoon but could not find it. Even though the cartoon wasn’t technically racist, I didn’t like it because it could easily be cover for genuine racial bigotry.

benj111 7y ago

Is it actually anti Semitic to portray a (Jewish) head of state as a (guide) dog? I'm going by the description here, rather than the actual imagery, but as described it doesn't seem to me to anti Semitic.

jeremyjh 7y ago
I haven't see the cartoon, but the link above describes it as "Netanyahu as a guide dog leading a blind President Trump in a skullcap." If you want to make a statement that the US blindly supports Israel, that is not in itself anti-Semitic. But why put Trump in a skullcap?
- benj111 7y ago
  Perhaps. To me though, if you go with that interpretation, the cartoon isn't anti Jewish (/Israel), its anti Trump, and a skull cap isn't inherently insulting, unless it's insulting to Jews that Trump is Jewish?
  - Litmus2336 7y ago
    Trump isn't Jewish.
diydsp 7y ago
No. Antizionism, anti-Israel, etc is not Anti-Semitic. Israel is a politic nation-state, subject to critique just like Zimbabwe or Australia. It's not equivalent to the culture, race or religion of Judaism. Many Jews disagree with the Israeli government's actions. But don't just take my word for it. This has been a long-debated topic. take a look at both sides: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=antizionim+is+not+antisemitic&t=ffsb&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=antizionim+is+not+antisemitic&t=ff...
refurb 7y ago
The sensitivity is around similar images being used by Nazi Germany to depict jews as rats, lice, etc. I can see why people see the parallels.