3 ms·

How To Get Started With Lisp

24 points by m3mb3r 16y ago

ohyes 16y ago
As someone who programs common lisp daily, I kind of hate scheme. (As an aside, I've had the enlightenment thing a couple of times, also, and it hasn't caused me to quit my job and write viaweb. (It did make me a better lover, however; YMMV)). Not that it is a terrible idea to start with scheme or Clojure, but scheme seems too pure (I like a REAL macro the same way I like a woman who knows what she wants...). Clojure was too much Java last time I checked (Stack-trace of doom! Where is my continuable error? God! My eyes! (awesome otherwise, let me know when this has been fixed)). Anyway, the point being, these all seem to be scheme links, and I've never gotten anything done in scheme other than admiring how fucking beautiful it is (seriously, great trellises). Here's my guide: 1.) install linux 2.) get sbcl 3.) get emacs and slime. add something like this to your .emacs (defun sbcl () (show-paren-mode) (setq inferior-lisp-program "sbcl") (add-to-list 'load-path "~/emacs/slime") (require 'slime) (slime-setup)) (sbcl) 4.) Maybe get/install Quicklisp. 5.) Hack hack hack. Just be stupidly prolific in your spare cycles. Impress your friends, classmates, coworkers, etc. They'll be confused as fuck about the syntax, but you'll know it is no different from any other syntax. (Also you will program fast as hell, you will be the Mercury to their Hephaestus) 6.) Make a modest salary.
- mahmud 16y ago
  I disagree with every sylable in this comment. Scheme is beautiful. Clojure is promising. The JVM is a fine platform, and Java itself is a decent language for the experienced engineer. You don't need Linux to hack in Common Lisp; I have used win32 for my Lisp apps in the last 10 years. You don't need to make a "modest" salary; I waited tables for $6/hr, and I made six figures .. neither changed my programming ability, Lisp or otherwise, I am still the same kludgemeister.
  - bugmenot 16y ago
    Care to elaborate on your w32 environment ? I started "Land of Lisp" as a newbie programmer, but there is no chapter on how to setup a decent "IDE". Coding all in the Clisp REPL is not very fun, especially when you have to shutdown your computer every now and then. I tried LispIDE but for some reason I can't send the code to the REPL (I just link the lisp path to the clisp.exe, but nothing happens). I went to the #lisp channel on Freenode and they all suggested emacs and slime, but I don't want to shift my focus from learning lisp to learning that big and powerful text editor, I don't want power right now, I just want simplicity to get started, being able to save some code in a txt file and send it to the REPL. I'd appreciate your advice on setting up a simple environment to get started. I installed Ubuntu yesterday so I can dual boot with w7 if that can help :)
  - ohyes 16y ago
    When did I imply otherwise? I had no idea that I had such ability to be so offensive in things that I neither typed, said, or spake. Apparently differing opinions are meant to be beaten out through karmic justice. It also seems that you agree with my assertions that scheme is beautiful and Clojure is promising but not there yet. So you don't disagree with every syllable of it, at least technically. So wtf with the hostility? Also, this post was entirely based on my experience. Keyword: MINE. I make a modest salary. That's the truth. $60,000 is not rolling in dough. Why would you even take issue with that? I don't get it.
    - mahmud 16y ago
      Thus far, we learned about your sexual prowess, your tastes in women and your salary. Yet not a single actionable insight or intelligence on Lisp: the subject matter of this thread.
      - ohyes 16y ago
        You haven't disagreed with me in a reasonable way. I make a flippant remark about fabled 'lisp enlightenment' and it becomes the entirety of my post? I gave a (reasonable) guide to my experience with lisp, state that I like REAL macros, say pretty much the same thing that you repeated about scheme (and Clojure), give a brief setup guide to emacs/slime, and say to program a lot (because programming a lot is the only thing that makes you good). AND SOMEHOW I HAVE ONLY TOLD YOU ABOUT MY DICK AND MY SALARY? Whatever, I'm being trolled. Good day, sir.
mahmud 16y ago
Meh, this is pure pandering and whoring for eye-balls. RWW finally discovered that "Lisp" is an easy ticket to front-page, pretty much anywhere.
aberkowitz 16y ago
While I have not yet finished Dr Conrad Barski's "Land of Lisp", I would highly recommend it to anyone interested in an introductory book as I am really enjoying it.
- silentbicycle 16y ago
  Yes, and don't forget to actually play with the code. Reading it with a REPL handy will teach you more than just reading ever could. Experiment!
- GeneralMaximus 16y ago
  Land of Lisp is probably the best computer book I've read in the 5 or 6 years I've been programming. It manages to be informative and fun at the same time. Where most books teach you how to write boring crap like JSON parsers, LoL walks you through Hunt the Wumpus and teaches you a couple of useful graph algorithms along the way. It devotes a chapter to web applications where you write a web interface using a web server you wrote yourself for a game you wrote yourself. There's even a program that uses a very rudimentary evolutionary algorithm to evolve organisms in a virtual world. Thanks to LoL, I dug up archives of computer magazines from the seventies and eighties[1] (Creative Computing, Compute! etc.) The "hacker spirit" sure has changed in the last 30 years. Those magazines were playful. They even had entire sections devoted to computer games and interesting puzzles you could solve using a computer (Core War, for example, first appeared in one such magazine). These days people write Twitter clients and todo lists that run on Google App Engine. LoL is one of very few books published in the last decade that capture the hacker spirit. It ranks right up there with _why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby and Programming Perl[2]. Right now I'm having a blast re-writing old BASIC games in Lisp and then writing programs to beat those games. Most games are easy to beat, but some of them can pose quite a challenge. Fun times :D --- [1] http://www.atariarchives.org/ http://www.atariarchives.org/ and http://www.atarimagazines.com/ http://www.atarimagazines.com/ [2] I don't actually program Perl. I just read a few chapters from Programming Perl one lazy afternoon.

24 points by m3mb3r 16y ago

ohyes 16y ago

As someone who programs common lisp daily, I kind of hate scheme. (As an aside, I've had the enlightenment thing a couple of times, also, and it hasn't caused me to quit my job and write viaweb. (It did make me a better lover, however; YMMV)). Not that it is a terrible idea to start with scheme or Clojure, but scheme seems too pure (I like a REAL macro the same way I like a woman who knows what she wants...). Clojure was too much Java last time I checked (Stack-trace of doom! Where is my continuable error? God! My eyes! (awesome otherwise, let me know when this has been fixed)). Anyway, the point being, these all seem to be scheme links, and I've never gotten anything done in scheme other than admiring how fucking beautiful it is (seriously, great trellises). Here's my guide: 1.) install linux 2.) get sbcl 3.) get emacs and slime. add something like this to your .emacs (defun sbcl () (show-paren-mode) (setq inferior-lisp-program "sbcl") (add-to-list 'load-path "~/emacs/slime") (require 'slime) (slime-setup)) (sbcl) 4.) Maybe get/install Quicklisp. 5.) Hack hack hack. Just be stupidly prolific in your spare cycles. Impress your friends, classmates, coworkers, etc. They'll be confused as fuck about the syntax, but you'll know it is no different from any other syntax. (Also you will program fast as hell, you will be the Mercury to their Hephaestus) 6.) Make a modest salary.

mahmud 16y ago
I disagree with every sylable in this comment. Scheme is beautiful. Clojure is promising. The JVM is a fine platform, and Java itself is a decent language for the experienced engineer. You don't need Linux to hack in Common Lisp; I have used win32 for my Lisp apps in the last 10 years. You don't need to make a "modest" salary; I waited tables for $6/hr, and I made six figures .. neither changed my programming ability, Lisp or otherwise, I am still the same kludgemeister.
- bugmenot 16y ago
  Care to elaborate on your w32 environment ? I started "Land of Lisp" as a newbie programmer, but there is no chapter on how to setup a decent "IDE". Coding all in the Clisp REPL is not very fun, especially when you have to shutdown your computer every now and then. I tried LispIDE but for some reason I can't send the code to the REPL (I just link the lisp path to the clisp.exe, but nothing happens). I went to the #lisp channel on Freenode and they all suggested emacs and slime, but I don't want to shift my focus from learning lisp to learning that big and powerful text editor, I don't want power right now, I just want simplicity to get started, being able to save some code in a txt file and send it to the REPL. I'd appreciate your advice on setting up a simple environment to get started. I installed Ubuntu yesterday so I can dual boot with w7 if that can help :)
- ohyes 16y ago
  When did I imply otherwise? I had no idea that I had such ability to be so offensive in things that I neither typed, said, or spake. Apparently differing opinions are meant to be beaten out through karmic justice. It also seems that you agree with my assertions that scheme is beautiful and Clojure is promising but not there yet. So you don't disagree with every syllable of it, at least technically. So wtf with the hostility? Also, this post was entirely based on my experience. Keyword: MINE. I make a modest salary. That's the truth. $60,000 is not rolling in dough. Why would you even take issue with that? I don't get it.
  - mahmud 16y ago
    Thus far, we learned about your sexual prowess, your tastes in women and your salary. Yet not a single actionable insight or intelligence on Lisp: the subject matter of this thread.
    - ohyes 16y ago
      You haven't disagreed with me in a reasonable way. I make a flippant remark about fabled 'lisp enlightenment' and it becomes the entirety of my post? I gave a (reasonable) guide to my experience with lisp, state that I like REAL macros, say pretty much the same thing that you repeated about scheme (and Clojure), give a brief setup guide to emacs/slime, and say to program a lot (because programming a lot is the only thing that makes you good). AND SOMEHOW I HAVE ONLY TOLD YOU ABOUT MY DICK AND MY SALARY? Whatever, I'm being trolled. Good day, sir.

mahmud 16y ago

Meh, this is pure pandering and whoring for eye-balls. RWW finally discovered that "Lisp" is an easy ticket to front-page, pretty much anywhere.

aberkowitz 16y ago

While I have not yet finished Dr Conrad Barski's "Land of Lisp", I would highly recommend it to anyone interested in an introductory book as I am really enjoying it.

silentbicycle 16y ago
Yes, and don't forget to actually play with the code. Reading it with a REPL handy will teach you more than just reading ever could. Experiment!
GeneralMaximus 16y ago
Land of Lisp is probably the best computer book I've read in the 5 or 6 years I've been programming. It manages to be informative and fun at the same time. Where most books teach you how to write boring crap like JSON parsers, LoL walks you through Hunt the Wumpus and teaches you a couple of useful graph algorithms along the way. It devotes a chapter to web applications where you write a web interface using a web server you wrote yourself for a game you wrote yourself. There's even a program that uses a very rudimentary evolutionary algorithm to evolve organisms in a virtual world. Thanks to LoL, I dug up archives of computer magazines from the seventies and eighties[1] (Creative Computing, Compute! etc.) The "hacker spirit" sure has changed in the last 30 years. Those magazines were playful. They even had entire sections devoted to computer games and interesting puzzles you could solve using a computer (Core War, for example, first appeared in one such magazine). These days people write Twitter clients and todo lists that run on Google App Engine. LoL is one of very few books published in the last decade that capture the hacker spirit. It ranks right up there with _why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby and Programming Perl[2]. Right now I'm having a blast re-writing old BASIC games in Lisp and then writing programs to beat those games. Most games are easy to beat, but some of them can pose quite a challenge. Fun times :D --- [1] http://www.atariarchives.org/ http://www.atariarchives.org/ and http://www.atarimagazines.com/ http://www.atarimagazines.com/ [2] I don't actually program Perl. I just read a few chapters from Programming Perl one lazy afternoon.