5 ms·

I know this is a really unpopular opinion, but what I don't get is why all this fuss over personal data? So what if facebook records what sites you've been to?

I know this is a really unpopular opinion, but what I don't get is why all this fuss over personal data? So what if facebook records what sites you've been to? If I visit starbucks, When I go to order my latte, the owners/baristas remember my name and face and maybe even what drink I ordered - you certainly don't mind that, right? People aren't normally sensitive to these things: for example Govt on average takes 1/3 of people's incomes (thousand, tens of thousands of dollars) without the slightest hint of complaint. But when a company records where you've been online (with 0$ cost to you) it's all the sudden a disaster? i genuinely struggle to understand this. if someone could explain it, that would be interesting.

iovrthoughtthis 7y ago
This explained it quite well to mw previously: https://robindoherty.com/2016/01/06/nothing-to-hide.html https://robindoherty.com/2016/01/06/nothing-to-hide.html
ccallebs 7y ago
Imagine that an entity knows your worst fears, deepest desires, biggest perversions, most sensitive insecurities, the people you love, the people you hate, the things you covet. Now let's pretend that they know how to use this information to change your opinion. And not just your opinion, but the opinion of however many people fit their targeted persuasion campaign. Then understand that the moment the data is sold to another group, they have the same power. The new group might want to do things more sinister than sell you designer jeans. Finally, realize that the information will last longer than you will. It'll probably be your legacy.
- sourthyme 7y ago
  I feel like this is a bit superfluous fear mongering. We are somewhat in control of ourselves, and should be expected to take responsibility for our actions. And this is just another way of using ads to attempt to manipulate us. Overtime we will learn to adjust the influence of ads, just as we have done before. I don't trust the government to fix this entirely, so I think its more important to learn to identify these persuasions, so they don't influence our actions.
  - behringer 7y ago
    Where's the fear mongering? This has already happened. Look at fake news. Look at russia manipulating people. Ads work, there is no way to adjust their influence other than refusing to allow them into your life at all. Even then, there's many ads you can't avoid online or in real life.
kohtatsu 7y ago
"Your data is worthless, everyone's data is priceless." Taxes are unrelated, and people at your coffee shop recognizing you is nothing compared to the lengths Facebook and Google go to for vacuuming up any and all personal data.
titzer 7y ago
I'll give it a shot. Yeah, so you don't give a crap about being tracked everywhere, having your every inclination, desire, thought, intention, or deed recorded. You're fine with them knowing everything about you, about your family, friends, associates, acquaintances, and all their doings and preferences too. But then one day you wake up and you realize that your entire existence is being mined to corral you into corridor of sameness, conformity, and malaise. You don't think anything edgy or dangerous, don't do anything remotely controversial or embarrassing. They mostly track you to monetize your sameness, your complete and utter lack of originality, your total lack of value to them except as cattle to be fed a diet of carrots and sticks; ads and special offers. You don't mind the digital eyes stalking you everywhere from the shadows. You don't mind having your complete existence watched over for--for now, seemingly innocuous if slightly annoying cajoling to buy more crap. But you live a charmed life without imagination. Without dangerous ideas. Who wouldn't hurt a soul. To you, your life couldn't possibly matter. To you, you're one of the herd. You like it. Blending right in. Enjoy your charmed life that complete and utter indifference to the digital dystopia being erected around you, beyond your control. You probably won't do anything edgy or interesting, because you're caught in that loop that they love you to be in. Inured and desensitized, caught in a self-reinforcing loop made by the background of your mind, constructed by your subconscious that knows that you're being watched--all the time. For your sakes I hope you never stumble on a crime, disagree with prevailing political opinions, or speak up against the powers that be. Or that you look like someone who might. Or are close to someone who might. Better steer clear of sex toys, risky behavior and embarrassing maladies, live your bland existence under the watchful eye of the overlords who seem harmless, if only a little greedy. Don't live your life any way that makes you unique and don't make yourself a target! Don't bother to use your imagination! Keep your lips off that whistle! And make sure to vote, or not, because who the fuck cares how society treats its citizens, amirite? And don't bother looking back to the expectation of privacy that just a generation ago, was some kind of normal. To see the governments and power structures that wielded tyranny over people and engaged in genocide, to the documents and bills of rights that were put in place to restrict that tyranny, and how thoroughly founders understood that people just have a right to be free. But lattes!
- thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
anyfoo 7y ago
Others explained, let's do a simple experiment instead: I see you are posting as "thorwasdfasdf". Why don't you instead not only use your real name, but also post your salary, profession, address, current and past lovers, intimate messages with them, what you like, what you don't, fights you had over electronic messaging... What's the hold up? Is it not the same as the barista at Starbucks knowing your name and what coffee you like? (Also, I don't get the comparison to taxes. You do realize that taxes pay for your infrastructure, safety, health--at least indirectly through regulation even if your country does not have public health care, justice system? But that's not really relevant to the topic here.)
- donatj 7y ago
  I think there is a huge difference between having this info publically accessible where people can judge and mock you for it, and simply having it used statistically to sell you things. I don't care what the computer thinks about me.
  - anyfoo 7y ago
    I don't think your statement works. First, the data is not just stored as part of a statistic. There are people who have access to the raw data (not to mention unintentional leaking). Secondly, the corporations harboring that data might not just use it to "sell you things". And then that alone would be worth a discussion, because how far is someone allowed to go to make you buy something?
kzzzznot 7y ago
A couple of other answers are a bit over the top, so I’ll give it a go too. When you go to Starbucks you make an active choice to give the baristas your name (or any name) without them checking it’s actually yours. What companies like Facebook and Google do is record your every move online with no effort or repeated decisions on your part on what to share with them. They, and whoever they sell your data to, can then build a profile around whatever aspect of your interests they choose, which will consist of associated risks and gains. That’s quite scary to me because they probably know more about some things about me than my closest friends and family do. If someone without good intentions, someone who wants something from me, someone I’ve wronged, someone who could just gain something from me has that data they can use it to manipulate me.
dilippkumar 7y ago
Others have already provided good answers. I'll add my 2 cents: Assume that the companies today are ethical with your data today - they only use algorithmic techniques to figure out what advertisements to sell to you. What guarantee do you have that these companies will be around for the next 20 years? What guarantee do you have that somebody won't acquire these companies when their stocks are languishing - and that the new masters over this data will not abuse it? Who owns Yahoo mail now? Who owns MySpace now? What are they doing with all that data? What incentives do they have to not abuse it? The usefulness of your personal data has an extremely long half-life period. I'd guess it is much much larger than what the average life-span of an internet company.
asdff 7y ago
The appropriate analogy would be like if it was a regular occurrence to have these baristas jumped after a shift and the contents of their brain and your face/late order information written down and sold to other criminals the world over. I don't mind the big bad gobmint taking my money, I wish they'd take more to be honest. Public infrastructure needs improving and safety nets need strengthening. On the other hand, advertisers don't need my purchase history, or any information about me, and I'd rather not let them stockpile that as even if they were pure and morally righteous, they can't be trusted to make secure databases (no one can).

iovrthoughtthis 7y ago

This explained it quite well to mw previously: https://robindoherty.com/2016/01/06/nothing-to-hide.html https://robindoherty.com/2016/01/06/nothing-to-hide.html

ccallebs 7y ago

Imagine that an entity knows your worst fears, deepest desires, biggest perversions, most sensitive insecurities, the people you love, the people you hate, the things you covet. Now let's pretend that they know how to use this information to change your opinion. And not just your opinion, but the opinion of however many people fit their targeted persuasion campaign. Then understand that the moment the data is sold to another group, they have the same power. The new group might want to do things more sinister than sell you designer jeans. Finally, realize that the information will last longer than you will. It'll probably be your legacy.

sourthyme 7y ago
I feel like this is a bit superfluous fear mongering. We are somewhat in control of ourselves, and should be expected to take responsibility for our actions. And this is just another way of using ads to attempt to manipulate us. Overtime we will learn to adjust the influence of ads, just as we have done before. I don't trust the government to fix this entirely, so I think its more important to learn to identify these persuasions, so they don't influence our actions.
- behringer 7y ago
  Where's the fear mongering? This has already happened. Look at fake news. Look at russia manipulating people. Ads work, there is no way to adjust their influence other than refusing to allow them into your life at all. Even then, there's many ads you can't avoid online or in real life.

kohtatsu 7y ago

"Your data is worthless, everyone's data is priceless." Taxes are unrelated, and people at your coffee shop recognizing you is nothing compared to the lengths Facebook and Google go to for vacuuming up any and all personal data.

titzer 7y ago

I'll give it a shot. Yeah, so you don't give a crap about being tracked everywhere, having your every inclination, desire, thought, intention, or deed recorded. You're fine with them knowing everything about you, about your family, friends, associates, acquaintances, and all their doings and preferences too. But then one day you wake up and you realize that your entire existence is being mined to corral you into corridor of sameness, conformity, and malaise. You don't think anything edgy or dangerous, don't do anything remotely controversial or embarrassing. They mostly track you to monetize your sameness, your complete and utter lack of originality, your total lack of value to them except as cattle to be fed a diet of carrots and sticks; ads and special offers. You don't mind the digital eyes stalking you everywhere from the shadows. You don't mind having your complete existence watched over for--for now, seemingly innocuous if slightly annoying cajoling to buy more crap. But you live a charmed life without imagination. Without dangerous ideas. Who wouldn't hurt a soul. To you, your life couldn't possibly matter. To you, you're one of the herd. You like it. Blending right in. Enjoy your charmed life that complete and utter indifference to the digital dystopia being erected around you, beyond your control. You probably won't do anything edgy or interesting, because you're caught in that loop that they love you to be in. Inured and desensitized, caught in a self-reinforcing loop made by the background of your mind, constructed by your subconscious that knows that you're being watched--all the time. For your sakes I hope you never stumble on a crime, disagree with prevailing political opinions, or speak up against the powers that be. Or that you look like someone who might. Or are close to someone who might. Better steer clear of sex toys, risky behavior and embarrassing maladies, live your bland existence under the watchful eye of the overlords who seem harmless, if only a little greedy. Don't live your life any way that makes you unique and don't make yourself a target! Don't bother to use your imagination! Keep your lips off that whistle! And make sure to vote, or not, because who the fuck cares how society treats its citizens, amirite? And don't bother looking back to the expectation of privacy that just a generation ago, was some kind of normal. To see the governments and power structures that wielded tyranny over people and engaged in genocide, to the documents and bills of rights that were put in place to restrict that tyranny, and how thoroughly founders understood that people just have a right to be free. But lattes!

thorwasdfasdf 7y ago

anyfoo 7y ago

Others explained, let's do a simple experiment instead: I see you are posting as "thorwasdfasdf". Why don't you instead not only use your real name, but also post your salary, profession, address, current and past lovers, intimate messages with them, what you like, what you don't, fights you had over electronic messaging... What's the hold up? Is it not the same as the barista at Starbucks knowing your name and what coffee you like? (Also, I don't get the comparison to taxes. You do realize that taxes pay for your infrastructure, safety, health--at least indirectly through regulation even if your country does not have public health care, justice system? But that's not really relevant to the topic here.)

donatj 7y ago
I think there is a huge difference between having this info publically accessible where people can judge and mock you for it, and simply having it used statistically to sell you things. I don't care what the computer thinks about me.
- anyfoo 7y ago
  I don't think your statement works. First, the data is not just stored as part of a statistic. There are people who have access to the raw data (not to mention unintentional leaking). Secondly, the corporations harboring that data might not just use it to "sell you things". And then that alone would be worth a discussion, because how far is someone allowed to go to make you buy something?

kzzzznot 7y ago

A couple of other answers are a bit over the top, so I’ll give it a go too. When you go to Starbucks you make an active choice to give the baristas your name (or any name) without them checking it’s actually yours. What companies like Facebook and Google do is record your every move online with no effort or repeated decisions on your part on what to share with them. They, and whoever they sell your data to, can then build a profile around whatever aspect of your interests they choose, which will consist of associated risks and gains. That’s quite scary to me because they probably know more about some things about me than my closest friends and family do. If someone without good intentions, someone who wants something from me, someone I’ve wronged, someone who could just gain something from me has that data they can use it to manipulate me.

dilippkumar 7y ago

Others have already provided good answers. I'll add my 2 cents: Assume that the companies today are ethical with your data today - they only use algorithmic techniques to figure out what advertisements to sell to you. What guarantee do you have that these companies will be around for the next 20 years? What guarantee do you have that somebody won't acquire these companies when their stocks are languishing - and that the new masters over this data will not abuse it? Who owns Yahoo mail now? Who owns MySpace now? What are they doing with all that data? What incentives do they have to not abuse it? The usefulness of your personal data has an extremely long half-life period. I'd guess it is much much larger than what the average life-span of an internet company.

asdff 7y ago

The appropriate analogy would be like if it was a regular occurrence to have these baristas jumped after a shift and the contents of their brain and your face/late order information written down and sold to other criminals the world over. I don't mind the big bad gobmint taking my money, I wish they'd take more to be honest. Public infrastructure needs improving and safety nets need strengthening. On the other hand, advertisers don't need my purchase history, or any information about me, and I'd rather not let them stockpile that as even if they were pure and morally righteous, they can't be trusted to make secure databases (no one can).