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You know, I used to think this way too, but then I noticed something: I never have trouble switching timezones. Oh oh I’m a nightowl how will I ever wake up be

by Swizec 7y ago

You know, I used to think this way too, but then I noticed something: I never have trouble switching timezones. Oh oh I’m a nightowl how will I ever wake up before 9am and go to bed before 3am!? Are you all insane for suggesting this? No way jose Then I travelled to USA, or from usa to Europe. 9 hour time difference. After a week or two I adjusted. Going to bed at 3am and waking up at 9. Hm that’s odd, if I claim I cannot shift my sleep schedule, how did I just do so by 9 whole freaking hours? And it only took 2 weeks. That’s odd So i tried shifting without travel. Bed at midnight, up at 7am. Worked great Now I have time before work to do stuff I otherwise would’ve done after midnight. Except my mind is fresher so I’m more effective about it

0815test 7y ago
It's ironic that this comment is so controversial, when it actually makes a logical argument. "Morning larks" vs. "night owls" is mostly a stereotype - at best, you could call it a matter of lifestyle. Treating it as something fixed and unchangeable is quite ludicrous.
- Swizec 7y ago
  I mean when you think about it, if our sleep schedules were fixed in stone, moving from West coast to East coast would not be practically possible. You’d be doomed to wake up at noon forever more. You might make that work, but try moving a few timezones further and you’ve pretty much doomed yourself to never participate in society. We know for a fact plenty of people are able to make these transitions. Regular travelers can even do them very quickly. Ergo it should be possible for most people to shift their sleep by a few hours. I think most people just aren’t inconvenienced enough to actually try PS: some research suggests that nightowls are actually more creative in the mornings. Larks are more creative in the evenings. So if you have a creative job, you might in fact benefit from working in your off time
Zenst 7y ago
I also travelled to America and was there for 3 weeks, being a night owl means that jet-lag works in your favour initially in this instance, then your natural cycle adjusts around two weeks when your daily routine has stayed the same for all that time and your sleep pattern shifts gradually back to its natural state of being late. I did work out once that if I traveled East at a certain speed that I could maintain a 9-5 lifestyle with ease. Though costs and logistical reasons meant this was just a fun maths exercise at the time, but worked out I'd cycle the globe around every 9 weeks or so (was a while back so might be recall error).
Twisol 7y ago
I'm truly happy for you, that you're one of the many people in the world whose sleep schedules are not more tightly coupled to the patterns of the Sun. Many of us are not like you, and we suffer for the lack of empathy expressed by such anecdotes. I wish it were that easy for me. Based on my reading, delayed sleep-phase disorder has two components: a natural sleep phase that is delayed from the societal norm, and an inability to adjust that sleep phase relative to solar activity. The sleep phase is not based on solar patterns directly, but is regulated by a couple of mechanisms, one of which is the circadian rhythm. The body regulates the circadian rhythm by the daily cycle of light -- but what I think most people don't realize is that this only makes the sleep cycle regular, periodic. It's the distinction between precision and accuracy: we are consistently off the bullseye. Changing timezones only shifts where the bullseye is. We cope with that just as anybody does: the body regularizes to the new norm. We're still a fixed offset off of the bullseye. There's a related disorder known as shift-work sleep disorder, where an individual normally exhibits a sleep phase compatible with societal norms, but when called on to adjust that sleep phase (e.g. for late-shift work) is consistently unable to do so. In other words, shift-work sleep disorder manifests only one of the two components of delayed sleep-phase disorder. Your anecdote shows that you definitely don't have shift-work sleep disorder.
- Swizec 7y ago
  I don’t think I have any disorder of any sort, you are right. But here’s the thing: I used to struggle horribly with all this societal nonsense about when to and not to sleep. For 30 years I was always waking up too late and feeling more comfortable staying up late. It sucked but I couldn’t for the life of me adjust. Until one day I realized it’s just like timezones. I can use the same tricks I use to switch timezones. Like going to bed at a set time instead of waiting for my body to tell me it’s time for bed. Waking up at a set time etc And ... it worked. So all I’m saying is try it. If you have and it didn’t work, fine. But you’ll never know if you don’t try. For 30 years I was too stubborn to try and would fight to the death anyone who suggested I may not have a sleep phase shift thingy and just aren’t going to bed early enough. Also if you say you are so very tied to signals for the sun. What happens in the summer when it’s light out from 6am to 9pm? Do you also start waking up earlier? What about in winter when it’s light only from 9am to 4pm? How do you cope? What do you do if you live in Finland and it’s light out for 6 months? Do you just not sleep?

by Swizec 7y ago

0815test 7y ago

It's ironic that this comment is so controversial, when it actually makes a logical argument. "Morning larks" vs. "night owls" is mostly a stereotype - at best, you could call it a matter of lifestyle. Treating it as something fixed and unchangeable is quite ludicrous.

Swizec 7y ago
I mean when you think about it, if our sleep schedules were fixed in stone, moving from West coast to East coast would not be practically possible. You’d be doomed to wake up at noon forever more. You might make that work, but try moving a few timezones further and you’ve pretty much doomed yourself to never participate in society. We know for a fact plenty of people are able to make these transitions. Regular travelers can even do them very quickly. Ergo it should be possible for most people to shift their sleep by a few hours. I think most people just aren’t inconvenienced enough to actually try PS: some research suggests that nightowls are actually more creative in the mornings. Larks are more creative in the evenings. So if you have a creative job, you might in fact benefit from working in your off time

Zenst 7y ago

I also travelled to America and was there for 3 weeks, being a night owl means that jet-lag works in your favour initially in this instance, then your natural cycle adjusts around two weeks when your daily routine has stayed the same for all that time and your sleep pattern shifts gradually back to its natural state of being late. I did work out once that if I traveled East at a certain speed that I could maintain a 9-5 lifestyle with ease. Though costs and logistical reasons meant this was just a fun maths exercise at the time, but worked out I'd cycle the globe around every 9 weeks or so (was a while back so might be recall error).

Twisol 7y ago

I'm truly happy for you, that you're one of the many people in the world whose sleep schedules are not more tightly coupled to the patterns of the Sun. Many of us are not like you, and we suffer for the lack of empathy expressed by such anecdotes. I wish it were that easy for me. Based on my reading, delayed sleep-phase disorder has two components: a natural sleep phase that is delayed from the societal norm, and an inability to adjust that sleep phase relative to solar activity. The sleep phase is not based on solar patterns directly, but is regulated by a couple of mechanisms, one of which is the circadian rhythm. The body regulates the circadian rhythm by the daily cycle of light -- but what I think most people don't realize is that this only makes the sleep cycle regular, periodic. It's the distinction between precision and accuracy: we are consistently off the bullseye. Changing timezones only shifts where the bullseye is. We cope with that just as anybody does: the body regularizes to the new norm. We're still a fixed offset off of the bullseye. There's a related disorder known as shift-work sleep disorder, where an individual normally exhibits a sleep phase compatible with societal norms, but when called on to adjust that sleep phase (e.g. for late-shift work) is consistently unable to do so. In other words, shift-work sleep disorder manifests only one of the two components of delayed sleep-phase disorder. Your anecdote shows that you definitely don't have shift-work sleep disorder.

Swizec 7y ago
I don’t think I have any disorder of any sort, you are right. But here’s the thing: I used to struggle horribly with all this societal nonsense about when to and not to sleep. For 30 years I was always waking up too late and feeling more comfortable staying up late. It sucked but I couldn’t for the life of me adjust. Until one day I realized it’s just like timezones. I can use the same tricks I use to switch timezones. Like going to bed at a set time instead of waiting for my body to tell me it’s time for bed. Waking up at a set time etc And ... it worked. So all I’m saying is try it. If you have and it didn’t work, fine. But you’ll never know if you don’t try. For 30 years I was too stubborn to try and would fight to the death anyone who suggested I may not have a sleep phase shift thingy and just aren’t going to bed early enough. Also if you say you are so very tied to signals for the sun. What happens in the summer when it’s light out from 6am to 9pm? Do you also start waking up earlier? What about in winter when it’s light only from 9am to 4pm? How do you cope? What do you do if you live in Finland and it’s light out for 6 months? Do you just not sleep?