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Pardon the double post but I think I see what you're looking for. The full diatribe is mostly advocating for a new lebensborn program. The direct talk of breedi

Pardon the double post but I think I see what you're looking for. The full diatribe is mostly advocating for a new lebensborn program. The direct talk of breeding up ubermensch/supermen with that exact word supports this. Of course the lebensborn program was integral with the wider eugenics sterilization program but perhaps we think Molyneux wants to skip that part. Except the phrase in question refers to the _whole_ breeding arena. "Whole" is clearly not selective breeding of .5% of the population. He also refers to _cleaning_ the gene pool ie removing "bad" genes. A breeding program alone won't clean any genes. So the meaning is completely clear, especially in context not in-spite of it. As an aside, the absurd use of language and the poor guy who hopes to become one of the select few with the right genes is an archetype of the cult leader/follower relation with its nonsensical parallel reality.

mistermann 7y ago
> Pardon the double post but I think I see what you're looking for. The full diatribe is mostly advocating for a new lebensborn program. The direct talk of breeding up ubermensch/supermen with that exact word supports this. Actually, what I'm looking for is some evidence or reasoning that supports your claims of Molyneux advocating white supremacy or eugenics. > Of course the lebensborn program was integral with the wider eugenics sterilization program but perhaps we think Molyneux wants to skip that part. Unless you can demonstrate an ability to read minds, your perception of what Molyneux thinks doesn't count as evidence. > Except the phrase in question refers to the _whole_ breeding arena. Does it? Please excerpt the literal words he's used so I know you're not using your imagination. > So the meaning is completely clear, especially in context not in-spite of it. We shall see when you provide the evidence (actual spoken words) supporting your new claim. > "absurd use of language", "nonsensical parallel reality" Indeed. EDIT: I'm not seeing the other post that goes with the "double" warning?
- TomMckenny 7y ago
  >Please excerpt the literal words he's used so I know you're not using your imagination. Excerpt the phrase at the top of this thread? The one we've been talking about for two days and which you just said was about his daughter? It is "The whole breeding arena of the species needs to be cleaned the fuck up". In context, it is preceded by a monologue that includes talk about creating breeding lines by changing peoples ideology and is followed by his daughter's permitted dating partners ending with the goal of creating "supermen". >> On the contrary "the whole code base needs to be cleaned of bugs" unambiguously means eliminate them to both the speaker and listener. > Yes, because phrase has a broadly accepted prior meaning There are results for similar phrases, but not that exact one just as there are results for phrases about "cleaning up" the gene pool but not Molyneux's exact words. Yet both are easily understood. But if I noticed my bug statement was too shocking for the guys listening (maybe insulting a team by being so blunt about their code) I might walk it back by saying "I don't let my daughter write crazy code". Which is not particularly coherent and certainly does not make the sentence about my daughter. Nor change what it means nor its referent nor the impact it has. Indeed, in order to conclude it is a reference to his daughter (because it's insisted that meaning is only unknowable to mind readers), we would have to consciously dismiss the entire video and society the ideas come from except for the single reference to his daughter. Then devise some extremely convoluted reasoning where her actions in some way relate to "cleaning" the whole gene pool. Or more generously, cleaning most of it. The most generous we could possibly be to Molyneux (and then only if this video were his one and only) is to say that he's only referring to the "good" part of the nazi program (it's obviously the nazi program because he even uses the term "supermen"). Next we have to dismiss the phrase that clearly refers to the integral bad part as merely a verbal coincidence, a complete accident uttered when he was actually thinking about his daughter. And even this still leaves him and his followers looking for the "good" in nazism.
  - mistermann 7y ago
    > Excerpt the phrase at the top of this thread? Ah, I've made a mistake, thanks for noticing. So, let's backtrack to your prior comment then: > Except the phrase in question refers to the _whole_ breeding arena. "Whole" is clearly not selective breeding of .5% of the population. Is it your position that "whole" unequivocally (in a way that is clear and unambiguous) refers to the human population on planet earth? No other meaning could possibly be derived or intended? For example, when he says "Most of them will need to be bred, and they need to be bred in an environment uncontaminated by the endless bullshit of the old world", is it not possible that he is referring to the various environmental factors in which his daughter is raised? How about when he says: "I can subject myself to my crazy (say, there's that word again) family of origin. I cannot subject my child, and I really don't have much of a right to subject my wife to it either. It wasn't her god damn fault"? You interpret the "crazy people" he's talking about in this clip to not be his family, which is what he literally says, but rather that he is referring to....non-white people? And the "cleaning up" he refers to cannot possibly refer to keeping his "crazy family of origin" away from his daughter (which is what he did), but rather the only possible intended meaning is to advocate eugenics? If so, would it be too much to ask you to include the relevant portions of the transcript (or, a link to the video you're working from, with timestamps....I'm looking at https://youtu.be/sgBUGpXz9-8 https://youtu.be/sgBUGpXz9-8) that substantiates this interpretation? > In context, it is preceded by a monologue that includes talk about creating breeding lines by changing peoples ideology I don't see any problem with this. I certainly try to teach my children an ideology (knowing the difference between right and wrong, fairness, inclusiveness, sharing, kindness, love, understanding, responsibility, rationality, honesty, humility, etc) and I very much hope they marry someone similarly minded, have children, raise them according to a similar (or improved) ideology, and spread it to as many people in their lives as possible. > ...and is followed by his daughter's permitted dating partners Timestamp of that please. > with the goal of creating "supermen" A eugenically bred race of Aryans undoubtedly? No other intended meaning is possible? > There are results for similar phrases, but not that exact one just as there are results for phrases about "cleaning up" the gene pool but not Molyneux's exact words. Timestamp of where he referred to cleaning up the "gene pool" please. > Yet both are easily understood. Cleaning up the gene pool has a generally accepted meaning. But did he say we need to clean up the gene pool? Google isn't coming up with anything. I wonder, does Molyneux maybe have an inside man at Google that wipes all these facts you know about him from their index? > Indeed, in order to conclude it is a reference to his daughter (because it's insisted that meaning is only unknowable to mind readers)... Or, you could just listen to the words he literally says, and be mindful of your subconscious injecting additional meaning. > we would have to consciously dismiss the entire video and society the ideas come from except for the single reference to his daughter Once again, because you say so right? If there is any uncertainty, the default meaning is obviously genocide (because "that's how language works" maybe)? No need to provide a reasoned argument with specific supporting quotes from what he's actually said? > Then devise some extremely convoluted reasoning where her actions in some way relate to "cleaning" the whole gene pool. Or more generously, cleaning most of it. Timestamp of this please. > The most generous we could possibly be to Molyneux (and then only if this video were his one and only) is to say that he's only referring to the "good" part of the nazi program (it's obviously the nazi program because he even uses the term "supermen") Obviously? Not just likely, but literally impossible that he could have intended another meaning? Literally no other historic meanings or noteworthy occurences of the word "superman/men"? https://www.britannica.com/topic/superman-philosophy https://www.britannica.com/topic/superman-philosophy Superman, German Übermensch, in philosophy, the superior man, who justifies the existence of the human race. “Superman” is a term significantly used by Friedrich Nietzsche, particularly in Also sprach Zarathustra (1883–85), although it had been employed by J.W. von Goethe and others. This superior man would not be a product of long evolution; rather, he would emerge when any man with superior potential completely masters himself and strikes off conventional Christian “herd morality” to create his own values, which are completely rooted in life on this earth. Nietzsche was not forecasting the brutal superman of the German Nazis, for his goal was a “Caesar with Christ’s soul.” George Bernard Shaw popularized the term “superman” in his play Man and Superman (1903). https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~pj97/Nietzsche.htm https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~pj97/Nietzsche.htm https://study.com/academy/lesson/nietzsches-bermensch-concept-theory.html https://study.com/academy/lesson/nietzsches-bermensch-concep... Is George Bernard Shaw also a Nazi? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_and_Superman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_and_Superman How about David Bowie? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Supermen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Supermen > Next we have to dismiss the phrase that clearly refers to the integral bad part as merely a verbal coincidence... Clearly. > a complete accident uttered when he was actually thinking about his daughter. Of course, it's simply not possible he was referring to his daughter, even though he specifically is discussing raising her in the surrounding context of that phrase. No, the only logical, evidence-based conclusion that makes sense, is that he was referring to non-whites, even though they aren't mentioned. PS: I had a few questions in this (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20147204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20147204) post as well - just a friendly reminder, don't mean to rush you.

mistermann 7y ago

> Pardon the double post but I think I see what you're looking for. The full diatribe is mostly advocating for a new lebensborn program. The direct talk of breeding up ubermensch/supermen with that exact word supports this. Actually, what I'm looking for is some evidence or reasoning that supports your claims of Molyneux advocating white supremacy or eugenics. > Of course the lebensborn program was integral with the wider eugenics sterilization program but perhaps we think Molyneux wants to skip that part. Unless you can demonstrate an ability to read minds, your perception of what Molyneux thinks doesn't count as evidence. > Except the phrase in question refers to the _whole_ breeding arena. Does it? Please excerpt the literal words he's used so I know you're not using your imagination. > So the meaning is completely clear, especially in context not in-spite of it. We shall see when you provide the evidence (actual spoken words) supporting your new claim. > "absurd use of language", "nonsensical parallel reality" Indeed. EDIT: I'm not seeing the other post that goes with the "double" warning?

TomMckenny 7y ago
>Please excerpt the literal words he's used so I know you're not using your imagination. Excerpt the phrase at the top of this thread? The one we've been talking about for two days and which you just said was about his daughter? It is "The whole breeding arena of the species needs to be cleaned the fuck up". In context, it is preceded by a monologue that includes talk about creating breeding lines by changing peoples ideology and is followed by his daughter's permitted dating partners ending with the goal of creating "supermen". >> On the contrary "the whole code base needs to be cleaned of bugs" unambiguously means eliminate them to both the speaker and listener. > Yes, because phrase has a broadly accepted prior meaning There are results for similar phrases, but not that exact one just as there are results for phrases about "cleaning up" the gene pool but not Molyneux's exact words. Yet both are easily understood. But if I noticed my bug statement was too shocking for the guys listening (maybe insulting a team by being so blunt about their code) I might walk it back by saying "I don't let my daughter write crazy code". Which is not particularly coherent and certainly does not make the sentence about my daughter. Nor change what it means nor its referent nor the impact it has. Indeed, in order to conclude it is a reference to his daughter (because it's insisted that meaning is only unknowable to mind readers), we would have to consciously dismiss the entire video and society the ideas come from except for the single reference to his daughter. Then devise some extremely convoluted reasoning where her actions in some way relate to "cleaning" the whole gene pool. Or more generously, cleaning most of it. The most generous we could possibly be to Molyneux (and then only if this video were his one and only) is to say that he's only referring to the "good" part of the nazi program (it's obviously the nazi program because he even uses the term "supermen"). Next we have to dismiss the phrase that clearly refers to the integral bad part as merely a verbal coincidence, a complete accident uttered when he was actually thinking about his daughter. And even this still leaves him and his followers looking for the "good" in nazism.
- mistermann 7y ago
  > Excerpt the phrase at the top of this thread? Ah, I've made a mistake, thanks for noticing. So, let's backtrack to your prior comment then: > Except the phrase in question refers to the _whole_ breeding arena. "Whole" is clearly not selective breeding of .5% of the population. Is it your position that "whole" unequivocally (in a way that is clear and unambiguous) refers to the human population on planet earth? No other meaning could possibly be derived or intended? For example, when he says "Most of them will need to be bred, and they need to be bred in an environment uncontaminated by the endless bullshit of the old world", is it not possible that he is referring to the various environmental factors in which his daughter is raised? How about when he says: "I can subject myself to my crazy (say, there's that word again) family of origin. I cannot subject my child, and I really don't have much of a right to subject my wife to it either. It wasn't her god damn fault"? You interpret the "crazy people" he's talking about in this clip to not be his family, which is what he literally says, but rather that he is referring to....non-white people? And the "cleaning up" he refers to cannot possibly refer to keeping his "crazy family of origin" away from his daughter (which is what he did), but rather the only possible intended meaning is to advocate eugenics? If so, would it be too much to ask you to include the relevant portions of the transcript (or, a link to the video you're working from, with timestamps....I'm looking at https://youtu.be/sgBUGpXz9-8 https://youtu.be/sgBUGpXz9-8) that substantiates this interpretation? > In context, it is preceded by a monologue that includes talk about creating breeding lines by changing peoples ideology I don't see any problem with this. I certainly try to teach my children an ideology (knowing the difference between right and wrong, fairness, inclusiveness, sharing, kindness, love, understanding, responsibility, rationality, honesty, humility, etc) and I very much hope they marry someone similarly minded, have children, raise them according to a similar (or improved) ideology, and spread it to as many people in their lives as possible. > ...and is followed by his daughter's permitted dating partners Timestamp of that please. > with the goal of creating "supermen" A eugenically bred race of Aryans undoubtedly? No other intended meaning is possible? > There are results for similar phrases, but not that exact one just as there are results for phrases about "cleaning up" the gene pool but not Molyneux's exact words. Timestamp of where he referred to cleaning up the "gene pool" please. > Yet both are easily understood. Cleaning up the gene pool has a generally accepted meaning. But did he say we need to clean up the gene pool? Google isn't coming up with anything. I wonder, does Molyneux maybe have an inside man at Google that wipes all these facts you know about him from their index? > Indeed, in order to conclude it is a reference to his daughter (because it's insisted that meaning is only unknowable to mind readers)... Or, you could just listen to the words he literally says, and be mindful of your subconscious injecting additional meaning. > we would have to consciously dismiss the entire video and society the ideas come from except for the single reference to his daughter Once again, because you say so right? If there is any uncertainty, the default meaning is obviously genocide (because "that's how language works" maybe)? No need to provide a reasoned argument with specific supporting quotes from what he's actually said? > Then devise some extremely convoluted reasoning where her actions in some way relate to "cleaning" the whole gene pool. Or more generously, cleaning most of it. Timestamp of this please. > The most generous we could possibly be to Molyneux (and then only if this video were his one and only) is to say that he's only referring to the "good" part of the nazi program (it's obviously the nazi program because he even uses the term "supermen") Obviously? Not just likely, but literally impossible that he could have intended another meaning? Literally no other historic meanings or noteworthy occurences of the word "superman/men"? https://www.britannica.com/topic/superman-philosophy https://www.britannica.com/topic/superman-philosophy Superman, German Übermensch, in philosophy, the superior man, who justifies the existence of the human race. “Superman” is a term significantly used by Friedrich Nietzsche, particularly in Also sprach Zarathustra (1883–85), although it had been employed by J.W. von Goethe and others. This superior man would not be a product of long evolution; rather, he would emerge when any man with superior potential completely masters himself and strikes off conventional Christian “herd morality” to create his own values, which are completely rooted in life on this earth. Nietzsche was not forecasting the brutal superman of the German Nazis, for his goal was a “Caesar with Christ’s soul.” George Bernard Shaw popularized the term “superman” in his play Man and Superman (1903). https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~pj97/Nietzsche.htm https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~pj97/Nietzsche.htm https://study.com/academy/lesson/nietzsches-bermensch-concept-theory.html https://study.com/academy/lesson/nietzsches-bermensch-concep... Is George Bernard Shaw also a Nazi? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_and_Superman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_and_Superman How about David Bowie? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Supermen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Supermen > Next we have to dismiss the phrase that clearly refers to the integral bad part as merely a verbal coincidence... Clearly. > a complete accident uttered when he was actually thinking about his daughter. Of course, it's simply not possible he was referring to his daughter, even though he specifically is discussing raising her in the surrounding context of that phrase. No, the only logical, evidence-based conclusion that makes sense, is that he was referring to non-whites, even though they aren't mentioned. PS: I had a few questions in this (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20147204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20147204) post as well - just a friendly reminder, don't mean to rush you.