5 ms·

not a great example. Riot literally lays their own fiber. A lot of their traffic flows over private networks. See here: https://www.polygon.com/2016/2/17/11037

by zemo 7y ago

not a great example. Riot literally lays their own fiber. A lot of their traffic flows over private networks. See here: https://www.polygon.com/2016/2/17/11037220/league-of-legends-was-too-slow-so-riot-built-a-private-internet-to https://www.polygon.com/2016/2/17/11037220/league-of-legends... > it is the spikes of 300 ms or more latency that sometimes happen yes that's jitter, that's part of what they're trying to address. That's like ... the whole point; you're paying to avoid routing through intermediaries with unreliable performance characteristics. edit: I see your other comment now. It wasn't there when I wrote this comment. Leaving it as it was for posterity.

dylz 7y ago
I find it hilarious that I peer with them for a total of 2 players. The thing about a lot of residential connections is that probably a not-insignificant amount of the problems are very close to last mile, as opposed to bandwidth availability at backbone or major interconnection points
- izzydata 7y ago
  Someone 1 block away from me gets as low as 20ms latency for the same things that I get 50ms on. Pretty sure the last mile has the biggest potential improvements.
wbl 7y ago
Bufferbloat at the home router and lack of better queuing and ECN are the cause of that problem.
- zemo 7y ago
  isn't ECN specifically a TCP thing? The target traffic for Network Next is all UDP. Nearly all latency-sensitive multiplayer games use UDP-based protocols.
  - wbl 7y ago
    That doesn't protect them from TCP streams or mean you can ignore congestion control.
- PaulHoule 7y ago
  Part of it. Also many people seem to think it is ritually unclean to use wires so they use WiFi in cases where ethernet would perform much better. From a business perspective, that is what makes it so hard. You could do the things and spend the money to get low latency at some steps in the chain and lose it all because of something that happens sporadically at another one. That is why I Bring Riot up as an example because the "vertical integration" there reduces the number of parties would could be involved and makes it a little more possible that they could invest in facilities and have customers perceive the results.
  - zemo 7y ago
    who are you referring to? The target audience for this product is specifically game developers whose users care about latency. Gamers that care about latency enough to make purchasing decisions based on them use wired ethernet if they're able to. The target demographic is decidedly not "people [who] seem to think it is ritually unclean to use wires so they use WiFi".

by zemo 7y ago

dylz 7y ago

I find it hilarious that I peer with them for a total of 2 players. The thing about a lot of residential connections is that probably a not-insignificant amount of the problems are very close to last mile, as opposed to bandwidth availability at backbone or major interconnection points

izzydata 7y ago
Someone 1 block away from me gets as low as 20ms latency for the same things that I get 50ms on. Pretty sure the last mile has the biggest potential improvements.

wbl 7y ago

Bufferbloat at the home router and lack of better queuing and ECN are the cause of that problem.

zemo 7y ago
isn't ECN specifically a TCP thing? The target traffic for Network Next is all UDP. Nearly all latency-sensitive multiplayer games use UDP-based protocols.
- wbl 7y ago
  That doesn't protect them from TCP streams or mean you can ignore congestion control.
PaulHoule 7y ago
Part of it. Also many people seem to think it is ritually unclean to use wires so they use WiFi in cases where ethernet would perform much better. From a business perspective, that is what makes it so hard. You could do the things and spend the money to get low latency at some steps in the chain and lose it all because of something that happens sporadically at another one. That is why I Bring Riot up as an example because the "vertical integration" there reduces the number of parties would could be involved and makes it a little more possible that they could invest in facilities and have customers perceive the results.
- zemo 7y ago
  who are you referring to? The target audience for this product is specifically game developers whose users care about latency. Gamers that care about latency enough to make purchasing decisions based on them use wired ethernet if they're able to. The target demographic is decidedly not "people [who] seem to think it is ritually unclean to use wires so they use WiFi".