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I disagree with the sense that being a night owl is bad for a 9–5. If you think about it, it's exactly the opposite. Being a night owl means that you wake up l

I disagree with the sense that being a night owl is bad for a 9–5. If you think about it, it's exactly the opposite. Being a night owl means that you wake up late, go straight to work, use up all your energy there, come back home tired, and then you can't have a life other than "go to the pub" or other low-energy activities. Waking up at a reasonable hour means that you can use your energy for useful things before work, which is bad for your company but good for you.

wool_gather 7y ago
> at a reasonable hour This is an odd thing to say, since the core point of this entire topic is that "a reasonable hour" differs based on a person's physiology.
- mFixman 7y ago
  Let's say "at an hour that doesn't make work the first and biggest thing on each weekday".
Twisol 7y ago
As someone with a deeply delayed sleep phase, this simply isn't accurate. It doesn't matter when you want me to wake up; I cannot even think of trying to sleep until midnight at the absolute earliest. My natural sleep time is closer to 2am. I don't get the "afternoon slump" until 6pm, a solid four hours after the average (2pm, according to some light searching). I know this is the slump and not simply exhaustion because it's consistently timed even through the weekends. Once I'm through the slump, I'm good to go for another four or five hours, and I do effectively use this time for my own pursuits.
- 8ytecoder 7y ago
  I don’t think people understand the difference in quality of sleep and so the whole next day for a night owl when they go to bed and wake up at a time that works for them. I have been measuring my sleep for years now. I try to keep early hours and wake up early. I have tried melatonin to bring a rather early sleep schedule ...etc. And yet, my body reverts to a midnight sleep time the first chance it gets. Also, there’s a marked improvement in quality - less movement, lower heart rate, less awake and longer sleep and more wakeful the next morning when I sleep at or after midnight and sleep 8 hours. I do have flexibility at work and yet I feel the shame walking into an office where everyone comes in at 8 and leaves sharp at 4/5. So, I go back to waking up early and feeling tired all day. Now, I have been keeping this tracking for at least 4 years now. I did a 23andMe test recently and according to them my natural wake time is 8.04am. Like everyone else night owls want to be successful and perception matters. So we end up waking up early and fitting in. However, I don’t think it’s good and I hope it changes.
- happyraul 7y ago
  What happens if you travel to another time zone, say 6 hours different to your home? Would you continue to fall asleep at the same time, or would you adjust? If you could adjust, does that mean the time you fall asleep is dictated by the position of the sun? If so, does that mean your bedtime varies with the seasons?
  - Twisol 7y ago
    That's a reasonable question. I covered this and some similar questions in another subthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20148165 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20148165 Long story short: I adjust to the new timezone just fine, and (depending on the direction I traveled) the temporary jetlag is sometimes a huge boon. But I still ultimately end up offset relative to local time. I haven't tested with subtler variations due to the seasons, but it's a very interesting idea.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
hinkley 7y ago
Every time I try to do something before a deadline, I end up being late for the deadline. This morning I got up a little early. Decided to catch up on some personal communications. Fast forward to now late, doing a mad scramble to be only 5 minutes late for my meeting. Staying up late isn't a panacea either, of course. You have to have the judgment to stop when you are tired and judgement is one of the first faculties to be compromised.

wool_gather 7y ago

> at a reasonable hour This is an odd thing to say, since the core point of this entire topic is that "a reasonable hour" differs based on a person's physiology.

mFixman 7y ago
Let's say "at an hour that doesn't make work the first and biggest thing on each weekday".

Twisol 7y ago

As someone with a deeply delayed sleep phase, this simply isn't accurate. It doesn't matter when you want me to wake up; I cannot even think of trying to sleep until midnight at the absolute earliest. My natural sleep time is closer to 2am. I don't get the "afternoon slump" until 6pm, a solid four hours after the average (2pm, according to some light searching). I know this is the slump and not simply exhaustion because it's consistently timed even through the weekends. Once I'm through the slump, I'm good to go for another four or five hours, and I do effectively use this time for my own pursuits.

8ytecoder 7y ago
I don’t think people understand the difference in quality of sleep and so the whole next day for a night owl when they go to bed and wake up at a time that works for them. I have been measuring my sleep for years now. I try to keep early hours and wake up early. I have tried melatonin to bring a rather early sleep schedule ...etc. And yet, my body reverts to a midnight sleep time the first chance it gets. Also, there’s a marked improvement in quality - less movement, lower heart rate, less awake and longer sleep and more wakeful the next morning when I sleep at or after midnight and sleep 8 hours. I do have flexibility at work and yet I feel the shame walking into an office where everyone comes in at 8 and leaves sharp at 4/5. So, I go back to waking up early and feeling tired all day. Now, I have been keeping this tracking for at least 4 years now. I did a 23andMe test recently and according to them my natural wake time is 8.04am. Like everyone else night owls want to be successful and perception matters. So we end up waking up early and fitting in. However, I don’t think it’s good and I hope it changes.
happyraul 7y ago
What happens if you travel to another time zone, say 6 hours different to your home? Would you continue to fall asleep at the same time, or would you adjust? If you could adjust, does that mean the time you fall asleep is dictated by the position of the sun? If so, does that mean your bedtime varies with the seasons?
- Twisol 7y ago
  That's a reasonable question. I covered this and some similar questions in another subthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20148165 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20148165 Long story short: I adjust to the new timezone just fine, and (depending on the direction I traveled) the temporary jetlag is sometimes a huge boon. But I still ultimately end up offset relative to local time. I haven't tested with subtler variations due to the seasons, but it's a very interesting idea.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

hinkley 7y ago

Every time I try to do something before a deadline, I end up being late for the deadline. This morning I got up a little early. Decided to catch up on some personal communications. Fast forward to now late, doing a mad scramble to be only 5 minutes late for my meeting. Staying up late isn't a panacea either, of course. You have to have the judgment to stop when you are tired and judgement is one of the first faculties to be compromised.