5 ms·

> People should of course not trust anyone with their data, not even the NHS How do you even use the NHS without trusting them with your medical data?

luckylion 7y ago
Trust != lack of alternative.
- arethuza 7y ago
  What do you mean by "lack of alternative" - alternative healthcare providers or alternative places for the NHS to store your data?
  - luckylion 7y ago
    The NHS. Sure, you can pay privately, but that's way more expensive from what I understand. If you need medical services, you have to give them some data. If there were similarly priced alternatives, trust would be a factor in the decision where to go. If there's only one, it's not - unless you count not seeking medical attention as an alternative.
    - arethuza 7y ago
      Well, the NHS is literally "free at the point of delivery" so of course private sector healthcare is more expensive - although it is fairly common for employers to provide private health coverage. What I would be worried about is how on earth anyone could actually evaluate the actual privacy of multiple competing suppliers - of course they will all claim that privacy is important. And what about emergencies - where even if you have private healthcare you will be taken to an NHS hospital.
      - DanBC 7y ago
        The CQC regulate this in their "Well Led" domain. https://www.cqc.org.uk/what-we-do/how-we-do-our-job/five-key-questions-we-ask https://www.cqc.org.uk/what-we-do/how-we-do-our-job/five-key... NHS Improvement (now NHS England and NHS Improvement until they get a new name) provide support around information governance: https://www.england.nhs.uk/ig/ https://www.england.nhs.uk/ig/ NHS Digital provide support about data security and governance: https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/looking-after-information/data-security-and-information-governance https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/looking-after-in... Every health organisation has to have a Caldicott Guardian - this is a senior manager with responsibility for keeping data confidential: https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/uk-caldicott-guardian-council https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/uk-caldicott-guardian-c... All trusts should have non-executive directors, and part of their role is to hold the trust to account around information governance. In a Foundation Trust the NEDs will be jointly and corporately responsible for those decisions. NHS Staff who want to become leaders can get leadership training with the NHS Leadership academy. That will include information governance as part of an NHS board. https://www.leadershipacademy.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/NHSLeadership-TheHealthyNHSBoard.pdf https://www.leadershipacademy.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012... The Professional Standards Organisation's "standards for members of NHS boards and clinical commissioning group governing bodies in England" mentions confidentiality, albeit only briefly: https://www.professionalstandards.org.uk/docs/default-source/publications/standards/standards-for-members-of-nhs-boards-and-ccgs-2013.pdf?sfvrsn=2 https://www.professionalstandards.org.uk/docs/default-source... > Respecting patients’ rights to consent, privacy and confidentiality, and access to information, while enabling the legitimate sharing of information between care teams and professionals for the purposes of a patient’s direct care
    - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
      My private medical insurance is £1200 per year for my wife and I, FWIW. Includes various add-ons including "advanced cancer cover". Also many big employers are providing health insurance as part of their benefits package these days. I have nothing against the NHS, in fact I'm very much for it, but for non-essential items they can keep you waiting and I can't afford to have a lot of time away from my business. Not that I'd trust my insurance company or health provider any more or less with my data than the NHS or their contractors, of course. It's not really something I've ever considered.
      - tempguy9999 7y ago
        I had health insurance and when I was unable to work for a long period, they duly paid out but far less than I was expecting. They broadcats vibes of warm-and-snuggly, puppies and kittens and smiling children but when the time comes they are predatory because it's they exist only for $$$. It becomes very clear at the end that they literally don't care about you. In my case I accept that I was naive, but it's possible you may run into something similar. I imagine cancer can be expensive to treat and it's not rare - do you think £1200 amortised over a period would cover the cost? "Hi, I've got cancer, and I've come to claim" "Oh yes, here's your insurance policy! It says Advanced Cancer Cover" "Quite" "So do you have Advanced Cancer?" "Well no but-" "Then you're not covered. Have some of our FREE paracetamol for £12.50" I'm being facetious but do check your small print.
    - pjc50 7y ago
      As far as I can tell, health insurance in the UK is generally cheaper than it is in the US. That's partly because they don't really do primary care, and anything difficult or complicated will be sent straight back to the public system.
    - DanBC 7y ago
      > If there's only one There is not only one place to go. NHS Trusts are independent, competing, businesses. They use different software; they have different governance procedures.
- afarrell 7y ago
  How do you use any {topic} service without trusting them with your {topic} personal data?
- DanBC 7y ago
  You can chose your GP based on the software they use and the governance procedures they have in place to handle your data. When you're referred on for elective care you can chose the hospital based on the same criteria. You don't get much choice over emergency treatment, nor over mental health treatment. I get the impression that people here think that you have one medical record that is available across all the NHS, but that's not correct. You have a bunch of different records in different places and they're not available to each other.

luckylion 7y ago

Trust != lack of alternative.

arethuza 7y ago
What do you mean by "lack of alternative" - alternative healthcare providers or alternative places for the NHS to store your data?
- luckylion 7y ago
  The NHS. Sure, you can pay privately, but that's way more expensive from what I understand. If you need medical services, you have to give them some data. If there were similarly priced alternatives, trust would be a factor in the decision where to go. If there's only one, it's not - unless you count not seeking medical attention as an alternative.
  - arethuza 7y ago
    Well, the NHS is literally "free at the point of delivery" so of course private sector healthcare is more expensive - although it is fairly common for employers to provide private health coverage. What I would be worried about is how on earth anyone could actually evaluate the actual privacy of multiple competing suppliers - of course they will all claim that privacy is important. And what about emergencies - where even if you have private healthcare you will be taken to an NHS hospital.
    - DanBC 7y ago
      The CQC regulate this in their "Well Led" domain. https://www.cqc.org.uk/what-we-do/how-we-do-our-job/five-key-questions-we-ask https://www.cqc.org.uk/what-we-do/how-we-do-our-job/five-key... NHS Improvement (now NHS England and NHS Improvement until they get a new name) provide support around information governance: https://www.england.nhs.uk/ig/ https://www.england.nhs.uk/ig/ NHS Digital provide support about data security and governance: https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/looking-after-information/data-security-and-information-governance https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/looking-after-in... Every health organisation has to have a Caldicott Guardian - this is a senior manager with responsibility for keeping data confidential: https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/uk-caldicott-guardian-council https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/uk-caldicott-guardian-c... All trusts should have non-executive directors, and part of their role is to hold the trust to account around information governance. In a Foundation Trust the NEDs will be jointly and corporately responsible for those decisions. NHS Staff who want to become leaders can get leadership training with the NHS Leadership academy. That will include information governance as part of an NHS board. https://www.leadershipacademy.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/NHSLeadership-TheHealthyNHSBoard.pdf https://www.leadershipacademy.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012... The Professional Standards Organisation's "standards for members of NHS boards and clinical commissioning group governing bodies in England" mentions confidentiality, albeit only briefly: https://www.professionalstandards.org.uk/docs/default-source/publications/standards/standards-for-members-of-nhs-boards-and-ccgs-2013.pdf?sfvrsn=2 https://www.professionalstandards.org.uk/docs/default-source... > Respecting patients’ rights to consent, privacy and confidentiality, and access to information, while enabling the legitimate sharing of information between care teams and professionals for the purposes of a patient’s direct care
  - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
    My private medical insurance is £1200 per year for my wife and I, FWIW. Includes various add-ons including "advanced cancer cover". Also many big employers are providing health insurance as part of their benefits package these days. I have nothing against the NHS, in fact I'm very much for it, but for non-essential items they can keep you waiting and I can't afford to have a lot of time away from my business. Not that I'd trust my insurance company or health provider any more or less with my data than the NHS or their contractors, of course. It's not really something I've ever considered.
    - tempguy9999 7y ago
      I had health insurance and when I was unable to work for a long period, they duly paid out but far less than I was expecting. They broadcats vibes of warm-and-snuggly, puppies and kittens and smiling children but when the time comes they are predatory because it's they exist only for $$$. It becomes very clear at the end that they literally don't care about you. In my case I accept that I was naive, but it's possible you may run into something similar. I imagine cancer can be expensive to treat and it's not rare - do you think £1200 amortised over a period would cover the cost? "Hi, I've got cancer, and I've come to claim" "Oh yes, here's your insurance policy! It says Advanced Cancer Cover" "Quite" "So do you have Advanced Cancer?" "Well no but-" "Then you're not covered. Have some of our FREE paracetamol for £12.50" I'm being facetious but do check your small print.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    As far as I can tell, health insurance in the UK is generally cheaper than it is in the US. That's partly because they don't really do primary care, and anything difficult or complicated will be sent straight back to the public system.
  - DanBC 7y ago
    > If there's only one There is not only one place to go. NHS Trusts are independent, competing, businesses. They use different software; they have different governance procedures.
afarrell 7y ago
How do you use any {topic} service without trusting them with your {topic} personal data?
DanBC 7y ago
You can chose your GP based on the software they use and the governance procedures they have in place to handle your data. When you're referred on for elective care you can chose the hospital based on the same criteria. You don't get much choice over emergency treatment, nor over mental health treatment. I get the impression that people here think that you have one medical record that is available across all the NHS, but that's not correct. You have a bunch of different records in different places and they're not available to each other.