4 ms·

Well you’re right, it isn’t for me. Which is exactly my point. I am their target market (user of creative software that’s willing to pay a bit of a premium), wh

Well you’re right, it isn’t for me. Which is exactly my point. I am their target market (user of creative software that’s willing to pay a bit of a premium), who has been willing to buy their computers in the past, and none of what they sell holds any appeal. It’s either ridiculously priced (Mac Pro), shoddy (MacBook) or not very modifiable (iMac) “The market” that it’s for (“creatives”) is saying things like “why can’t I get an Nvidia card?” And “I can’t afford a twelve thousand dollar computer” (what this thing costs if you pair it with the monitor) I’ve worked in games and CAD so I’m no stranger to needing powerful computers, but those numbers are absurd and most of that software doesn’t need to run on Mac. I don’t care much about the OS I’m on and I’m perfectly fine with windows or Linux if I save 8 thousand dollars and can use a broader range of hardware. As far as I can tell the only people that NEED macOS are iOS developers. If I’m working on films or games or design almost all of that software runs on windows.

scarface74 7y ago
You can get an equivalent Windows computer for $8000 less than a Mac Pro + Apple display? You know no one is forcing you to buy the Apple display right?
- overgard 7y ago
  Yes, I can easily get a computer for 4K that rivals a Mac Pro. I think like 4 years ago my employer let me spec out the computer I bought for 4K and I built a 20 core Xeon monstrosity with 32gb of ram, 3 monitors, and like a $700 Nvidia card. 4 years ago! If apple was listening to their customers they’d offer a customisable desktop tower in the 2-5k range people are willing to pay. As much as I like the iMacs display I’m using it with a Wacom cintiq so having a built in screen is a waste for me. I just want a computer that can be opened and upgraded, runs macOS, and doesn’t require a loan.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Including the monitor? But $1000 cheaper is a far cry from “$8000 cheaper”. You don’t have to buy the monitor by the way....
    - overgard 7y ago
      I have a 4K (resolution) monitor that cost me about $400. It’s less fancy than a 6k (resolution) monitor but I’m also paying about a tenth the price sooo. Yeah. Let’s say 2 nice 4K monitors and a $3200 tower. That can easily compete with a 6000 dollar tower with a 6000 dollar monitor from apple, and I’m spending 4000 dollars instead of 12000. What exactly am I getting for that extra 8000 to make it worthwhile?
      - scarface74 7y ago
        If all you need is the 4K monitor than the 6K monitor is not for you and you could use the same 4K monitor with the Mac Pro. Heck you could get the 5K LG monitor for $1200 and save $3800 dollars. Nothing is forcing you to buy the 6K monitor if you don’t need it. Isn’t that the whole purpose of buying the Mac Pro over the iMac Pro that you can mix and match based on your needs?
        overgard 7y ago
        Yes nobody is forcing me to buy it. My point with the 6k monitor is just to show how wacky apples pricing is. For reference I also have a 5k monitor, and next to the 4K the improvement is marginal/almost imperceptible. I also have a $2500 art tablet, which is a 4K touchscreen with highly accurate color reproduction and a very sophisticated drawing pen — ie an actual professional tool. This computer and monitor apple is selling seems like a gimmick for absurdly rich people.
        scarface74 7y ago
        If Apple's pricing is "wacky" for the specs of the 6K monitor, you should be able to find an equivalenty specced monitor cheaper.....
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        Have you taken a look at the display? It's very good. Calling it a "6K monitor" is doing it an injustice.
  - imagetic 7y ago
    If they had done an 8-core i9'ish option with 64gb of RAM and an RTX card equivalent for $3500...I would hit the speed dial to my Apple sales rep.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      The Core I9 versus the workstation class processors wouldn’t use the same motherboard. It’s not just a configurable option. I understand the desire for such an option. But that wasn’t the market they we’re designing for.
      - imagetic 7y ago
        This is true, it's a hard comparison / wish because it's actually a different motherboard. But if Apple wants something, they can typically figure out how to get it. Based on my years working in media, there is a much larger market for a well priced mid-range Mac Pro than the "you're only a pro if you can afford it" level workstation.
        scarface74 7y ago
        A lot of posters here are saying that the software is available on Windows so it is an alternative. But, the automation story is much better on the Mac. There are a lot of professionals who will demand a Mac. Companies are not going to skimp on hardware to save a couple of grand. They will grit their teethe and by an iMac Pro or a Mac Pro. The submission is about “Apple listening” while that’s one guy’s opinion, Apple told the press that they have an entire internal team of real professional media creators they worked with while designing the Mac Pro. Does anyone really think that Apple spent the last two years designing the Mac Pro without getting feedback of potential customers and didn’t design it to get the market they wanted? The same could be said about the iMac Pro. Sure it’s nice to have other developers, but between web developers who prefer the Mac and could care less about a modular Mac and iOS developers who must buy a Mac, if Apple loses the other few - so be it in Apples eyes. The entire desktop market is a small niche (as opposed to laptops). If Apple developer the perfect mid range expandable Mac it wouldn’t make a meaningful difference to their revenue or ecosystem.
- shard972 7y ago
  > You know no one is forcing you to buy the Apple display right? What a sales pitch.
analognoise 7y ago
FPGA developer here. Access to a Linux cluster at work, everyone has 96GB ECC ram, dual Xeon on win 10 as a backup in case of any issues or if they prefer running locally. Our badass computers were a hair over 10k a piece. I have no idea why anyone would pay what Apple is asking. I remember when it was "counterculture" to give people more compute, for less money - do real work, on machines that made financial sense - that was sticking it to "the Man" (IBM, the suits who thought they knew anything). Now Microsoft is the counter culture, increasingly open, value for money. I don't understand this timeline at all.
- scarface74 7y ago
  What point are you trying to make? You said your computers are a hair over $10K a piece. The base price of the Mac Pro is $6000. Unless you think that Apple is going to charge $4000 to upgrade from 32GB to 96GB.
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    On the iMac pro 32 to 128 costs 2k, there is no 96. Then there is storage, display, gpu and the fact that the referenced machine was purchased months or years in the past vs months in the future. Assuming the user can do basic numeric comparison I'm assuming that his 10k includes substantial extras beyond ram that would also have to be added to the equivalent Mac.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Well seeing that - none of the upgrades have been announced. - he didn’t say anything about specs besides the memory and processor - you can get third party RAM for the iMac Pro. So the question remains - what point was he trying to make? Unless he like the other poster was bundling the cost of the monitor with the Mac Pro as if you have to buy both.
      - analognoise 7y ago
        The 6k config comes with dual Xeons? That might not be a bad deal. I thought that was the base configuration, with dual processors available as an upgrade. It says "up to 28 cores".

scarface74 7y ago

You can get an equivalent Windows computer for $8000 less than a Mac Pro + Apple display? You know no one is forcing you to buy the Apple display right?

overgard 7y ago
Yes, I can easily get a computer for 4K that rivals a Mac Pro. I think like 4 years ago my employer let me spec out the computer I bought for 4K and I built a 20 core Xeon monstrosity with 32gb of ram, 3 monitors, and like a $700 Nvidia card. 4 years ago! If apple was listening to their customers they’d offer a customisable desktop tower in the 2-5k range people are willing to pay. As much as I like the iMacs display I’m using it with a Wacom cintiq so having a built in screen is a waste for me. I just want a computer that can be opened and upgraded, runs macOS, and doesn’t require a loan.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Including the monitor? But $1000 cheaper is a far cry from “$8000 cheaper”. You don’t have to buy the monitor by the way....
  - overgard 7y ago
    I have a 4K (resolution) monitor that cost me about $400. It’s less fancy than a 6k (resolution) monitor but I’m also paying about a tenth the price sooo. Yeah. Let’s say 2 nice 4K monitors and a $3200 tower. That can easily compete with a 6000 dollar tower with a 6000 dollar monitor from apple, and I’m spending 4000 dollars instead of 12000. What exactly am I getting for that extra 8000 to make it worthwhile?
    - scarface74 7y ago
      If all you need is the 4K monitor than the 6K monitor is not for you and you could use the same 4K monitor with the Mac Pro. Heck you could get the 5K LG monitor for $1200 and save $3800 dollars. Nothing is forcing you to buy the 6K monitor if you don’t need it. Isn’t that the whole purpose of buying the Mac Pro over the iMac Pro that you can mix and match based on your needs?
      - overgard 7y ago
        Yes nobody is forcing me to buy it. My point with the 6k monitor is just to show how wacky apples pricing is. For reference I also have a 5k monitor, and next to the 4K the improvement is marginal/almost imperceptible. I also have a $2500 art tablet, which is a 4K touchscreen with highly accurate color reproduction and a very sophisticated drawing pen — ie an actual professional tool. This computer and monitor apple is selling seems like a gimmick for absurdly rich people.
        scarface74 7y ago
        If Apple's pricing is "wacky" for the specs of the 6K monitor, you should be able to find an equivalenty specced monitor cheaper.....
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      Have you taken a look at the display? It's very good. Calling it a "6K monitor" is doing it an injustice.
- imagetic 7y ago
  If they had done an 8-core i9'ish option with 64gb of RAM and an RTX card equivalent for $3500...I would hit the speed dial to my Apple sales rep.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    The Core I9 versus the workstation class processors wouldn’t use the same motherboard. It’s not just a configurable option. I understand the desire for such an option. But that wasn’t the market they we’re designing for.
    - imagetic 7y ago
      This is true, it's a hard comparison / wish because it's actually a different motherboard. But if Apple wants something, they can typically figure out how to get it. Based on my years working in media, there is a much larger market for a well priced mid-range Mac Pro than the "you're only a pro if you can afford it" level workstation.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        A lot of posters here are saying that the software is available on Windows so it is an alternative. But, the automation story is much better on the Mac. There are a lot of professionals who will demand a Mac. Companies are not going to skimp on hardware to save a couple of grand. They will grit their teethe and by an iMac Pro or a Mac Pro. The submission is about “Apple listening” while that’s one guy’s opinion, Apple told the press that they have an entire internal team of real professional media creators they worked with while designing the Mac Pro. Does anyone really think that Apple spent the last two years designing the Mac Pro without getting feedback of potential customers and didn’t design it to get the market they wanted? The same could be said about the iMac Pro. Sure it’s nice to have other developers, but between web developers who prefer the Mac and could care less about a modular Mac and iOS developers who must buy a Mac, if Apple loses the other few - so be it in Apples eyes. The entire desktop market is a small niche (as opposed to laptops). If Apple developer the perfect mid range expandable Mac it wouldn’t make a meaningful difference to their revenue or ecosystem.
shard972 7y ago
> You know no one is forcing you to buy the Apple display right? What a sales pitch.

analognoise 7y ago

FPGA developer here. Access to a Linux cluster at work, everyone has 96GB ECC ram, dual Xeon on win 10 as a backup in case of any issues or if they prefer running locally. Our badass computers were a hair over 10k a piece. I have no idea why anyone would pay what Apple is asking. I remember when it was "counterculture" to give people more compute, for less money - do real work, on machines that made financial sense - that was sticking it to "the Man" (IBM, the suits who thought they knew anything). Now Microsoft is the counter culture, increasingly open, value for money. I don't understand this timeline at all.

scarface74 7y ago
What point are you trying to make? You said your computers are a hair over $10K a piece. The base price of the Mac Pro is $6000. Unless you think that Apple is going to charge $4000 to upgrade from 32GB to 96GB.
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  On the iMac pro 32 to 128 costs 2k, there is no 96. Then there is storage, display, gpu and the fact that the referenced machine was purchased months or years in the past vs months in the future. Assuming the user can do basic numeric comparison I'm assuming that his 10k includes substantial extras beyond ram that would also have to be added to the equivalent Mac.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Well seeing that - none of the upgrades have been announced. - he didn’t say anything about specs besides the memory and processor - you can get third party RAM for the iMac Pro. So the question remains - what point was he trying to make? Unless he like the other poster was bundling the cost of the monitor with the Mac Pro as if you have to buy both.
    - analognoise 7y ago
      The 6k config comes with dual Xeons? That might not be a bad deal. I thought that was the base configuration, with dual processors available as an upgrade. It says "up to 28 cores".