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You seem to assuming as much bad faith as you believe the OP is assuming. Is this (edit: your preference re: muting) a generational thing? Because I definitel

You seem to assuming as much bad faith as you believe the OP is assuming. Is this (edit: your preference re: muting) a generational thing? Because I definitely see it as a reasonable expectation that somebody at a telemeeting would be visible-by-default, and only muted in specific circumstances such as large meetings, or after citing some abnormal local situation (e.g. not "presentable"). I believe body language is important and generally find communication still has "dimensional" improvements in efficiency, moving from text chat to voice to video+voice. However, I can also see that my expectations are not shared by you, based on your strong response. My gut tells me this is related to different communication norms with "digital natives." I think your assumptions of malice and inability to learn on the part of the manager are misplaced.

couchand 7y ago
You seem to be assuming both my preference and age. I'll allow that some of it may be generational; many of my younger colleagues have never called in to a conference call. But I challenge your claim that I'm assuming bad faith. At no point did I question the motives of the OP, only their actions. Edit: I should clarify, because my original comment could reasonably be read as assuming details about the internal motivations of the OP. Allow me to rephrase: if a mangers' default response to an individual not having a camera on is to dress down the person for not "being present", that manager is making a toxic workplace environment.
- ycombobreaker 7y ago
  Yeah I suppose I'm assuming your age. I don't understand where you're coming from when you feel that the immediate response from the situation is to quit, and my "maximum likelihood estimate" is that it is millenial vs gen-x office culture, hence the leading question. Apologies if that has offended you. Your preference seems... clear enough to me? given that you said you would quit that day. What am I misunderstanding? I believe your response of leaving rather than attempting to reconcile the difference in expectations is an indication of assumption of bad faith. As in, you seem to believe the manager would not be responsive to a discussion.
colanderman 7y ago
I've never gained anything from watching "body language" during a video call. A key component to body language is what the other person is looking at. But – you can't tell in a video call! I can't tell who's looking at whom or what – everyone is just blankly staring at "me". And half the time, I'm looking at relevant documents in another tab, so (a) I can't see anyone else's face anyway, and (b) the fact that I'm looking away from the speaker isn't reflected in the video feed. Growing up pre-internet blessed me with the ability to communicate effectively without body language, thanks to the telephone. I find that translates perfectly well to video-less conference calls.
hoseja 7y ago
Yeah, all this looking each other in the eye and such seem very much like a boomer/MBA thing.

couchand 7y ago

You seem to be assuming both my preference and age. I'll allow that some of it may be generational; many of my younger colleagues have never called in to a conference call. But I challenge your claim that I'm assuming bad faith. At no point did I question the motives of the OP, only their actions. Edit: I should clarify, because my original comment could reasonably be read as assuming details about the internal motivations of the OP. Allow me to rephrase: if a mangers' default response to an individual not having a camera on is to dress down the person for not "being present", that manager is making a toxic workplace environment.

ycombobreaker 7y ago
Yeah I suppose I'm assuming your age. I don't understand where you're coming from when you feel that the immediate response from the situation is to quit, and my "maximum likelihood estimate" is that it is millenial vs gen-x office culture, hence the leading question. Apologies if that has offended you. Your preference seems... clear enough to me? given that you said you would quit that day. What am I misunderstanding? I believe your response of leaving rather than attempting to reconcile the difference in expectations is an indication of assumption of bad faith. As in, you seem to believe the manager would not be responsive to a discussion.

colanderman 7y ago

I've never gained anything from watching "body language" during a video call. A key component to body language is what the other person is looking at. But – you can't tell in a video call! I can't tell who's looking at whom or what – everyone is just blankly staring at "me". And half the time, I'm looking at relevant documents in another tab, so (a) I can't see anyone else's face anyway, and (b) the fact that I'm looking away from the speaker isn't reflected in the video feed. Growing up pre-internet blessed me with the ability to communicate effectively without body language, thanks to the telephone. I find that translates perfectly well to video-less conference calls.

hoseja 7y ago

Yeah, all this looking each other in the eye and such seem very much like a boomer/MBA thing.