6 ms·

Sure - working great for somebody like Marco who’s already loaded.

scarface74 7y ago
You know that's an old popular meme in the Apple community... "That might work for Marco". Marco didn't come from money or have any connections. He found a job on Craigslist working for a random guy named David Karpe as his first employee. They started Tumblr and he lucked out when it got acquired by Yahoo and made a few million. But the acquisition happened after he started a blog that became popular, wrote Instapaper, and started a podcast that became popular. I'm sure Overcast was helped by his popularity but if it had sucked, no one would have downloaded it. Even for that he tried three different monetization strategies until he landed on one that worked -- writing his own non scummy ad platform. All of this with no outside funding. And he lucked up and made money by being an early investor in Gimlet Media but that was way later. But on a personal note. If I needed it, a $5,000 iMac Pro wouldn't break the bank and I'm just a regular old enterprise developer. That's less than two weeks billable work for a halfway competent cheap software contractor. Heck my college computer was $4000 in 1992. A Mac LCII with 10MB of RAM, a //e card, a 5-1/4 disk drive, a Personal Laserwriter printer and a copy of Soft AT to run Dos compilers and a 12" monitor. Over the next two years I upgraded it with a larger monitor, an external hard drive, and an accelerator card using money I got doing a contract for a college.
- JohnBooty 7y ago
  I really feel like you're missing the point of "That might work for Marco, since he has a lot of money" comments. You've summed up, very neatly, why he's talented and worked hard and has earned his money. But nobody's claiming he didn't earn his bunches of money. What they're stating is a simple fact: six thousand dollar computers might make sense for somebody with a bunch of money. But not for people with more modest means.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    How many people with “modest means” need the Mac Pro? Like I said, my parents were the definition of middle class - a teacher and a factory worker - and I had a $4000 computer setup in 1992 going to college (see specs in another post). That would be $7300 inflation adjusted.
    - BackBackBack 7y ago
      That's the whole issue. There should be a mac between the mac mini and mac pro as right now they are only addressing the extremes. And it should not be one with a screen attached to it and no expansion.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        And a fully deck out Mac Mini wouldn’t suit the needs of an average self employed developer? What expansion do you need that you couldn’t do externally on an iMac if you have “modest means” and so assume modest requirements?
        BackBackBack 7y ago
        Mac mini has no expansion and is very thermally constrained. If you are a web developer and never do anything else it might be fine, but there are many kinds of developers, and some need custom hardware, custom PCI cards, multiple network adapters, normal consumer grade GPUs not on an external bus. In short, not the most extreme processing power but customization options. To be able to change hardware without throwing away the whole machine. Anyway, I love how Apple has convinced everybody that a ~$3000-$4000 machine cannot be pro and is not worthy of their engineering prowess because only modest, unsuccessful developers would spend such a small amount in a computer.
        scarface74 7y ago
        So in your personal case - a $4000 iMac wouldn’t meet your needs? The performance difference between an external GPU would be a deal breaker?
- Barrin92 7y ago
  I don't think the OP was saying that he doesn't deserve his money, but it really is absolutely absurd. Apple is an international company, worth a trillion dollars selling millions of devices. I work in the UK. I make about 80k a year pre-taxes. That's an average, if not relatively high salary for a developer. "Regular old enterprise developers" don't make 5000 bucks in two weeks, at least not in 99% of the developed world, not to speak of the rest. And it's true that technology in 1992 was very expensive, but technology is actually supposed to get cheaper, that's the entire point, you get more for less. If you pay more for the same, that's anti-technology
  - scarface74 7y ago
    But if my parents - a teacher and a factory worker could afford it in 1992, are you really saying that a developer couldn’t? I live in Atlanta - almost as far from the west coast of the US that you can get and salaries are much lower than the west coast. They pay developers with 3-5 years of experience $65/hour on a 1099 (Corp to Corp) basis. Since this would be a tax deductible company expense, that would be less than two weeks working.
    - Barrin92 7y ago
      I mean I could technically afford it in the sense that I have enough money in the bank, but it's simply not justifiable. In 1992 hardware was expensive but the competition was fairly limited and Apple, even as recently as say 6-7 years ago with the iphone and macbook pro produced products were the premium was actually worth it. But now? I can buy a 1.5k desktop machine, throw linux and windows on it and I am a perfectly happy camper (and very happer developer). I can buy a 400$ phone and I hardly notice any difference in quality. I don't see, in the context of alternatives, why apple is seemingly raising prices at will and that makes me feel duped, regardless of what I earn.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        And if all you need is the power of a $1500 PC, you aren’t the target market for the Mac Pro. Apple has plenty other Macs that would meet your needs. If you can’t “justify” the need for a Mac Pro - (and neither can I) you aren’t the target market.
- chipotle_coyote 7y ago
  If you're a regular old enterprise developer, the chances are you don't actually need a $5000 iMac Pro, either. The stock 6-core 3.7GHz i5 iMac 5K for $2300 (maybe with another ~$100 for 16GB extra third-party memory to bring it internally up to 24GB) is going to be more than up to the challenge of most tasks.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    I agree about the iMac.... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20143484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20143484 And the memory... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20143664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20143664
    - chipotle_coyote 7y ago
      Heh. The "buy with 8GB and add 16GB third-party" is what I actually did, although I have a Late 2015 iMac bought in early 2016. A bit over three years in and it's still feeling quite fast to me.

You know that's an old popular meme in the Apple community... "That might work for Marco". Marco didn't come from money or have any connections. He found a job on Craigslist working for a random guy named David Karpe as his first employee. They started Tumblr and he lucked out when it got acquired by Yahoo and made a few million. But the acquisition happened after he started a blog that became popular, wrote Instapaper, and started a podcast that became popular. I'm sure Overcast was helped by his popularity but if it had sucked, no one would have downloaded it. Even for that he tried three different monetization strategies until he landed on one that worked -- writing his own non scummy ad platform. All of this with no outside funding. And he lucked up and made money by being an early investor in Gimlet Media but that was way later. But on a personal note. If I needed it, a $5,000 iMac Pro wouldn't break the bank and I'm just a regular old enterprise developer. That's less than two weeks billable work for a halfway competent cheap software contractor. Heck my college computer was $4000 in 1992. A Mac LCII with 10MB of RAM, a //e card, a 5-1/4 disk drive, a Personal Laserwriter printer and a copy of Soft AT to run Dos compilers and a 12" monitor. Over the next two years I upgraded it with a larger monitor, an external hard drive, and an accelerator card using money I got doing a contract for a college.

JohnBooty 7y ago
I really feel like you're missing the point of "That might work for Marco, since he has a lot of money" comments. You've summed up, very neatly, why he's talented and worked hard and has earned his money. But nobody's claiming he didn't earn his bunches of money. What they're stating is a simple fact: six thousand dollar computers might make sense for somebody with a bunch of money. But not for people with more modest means.
- scarface74 7y ago
  How many people with “modest means” need the Mac Pro? Like I said, my parents were the definition of middle class - a teacher and a factory worker - and I had a $4000 computer setup in 1992 going to college (see specs in another post). That would be $7300 inflation adjusted.
  - BackBackBack 7y ago
    That's the whole issue. There should be a mac between the mac mini and mac pro as right now they are only addressing the extremes. And it should not be one with a screen attached to it and no expansion.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      And a fully deck out Mac Mini wouldn’t suit the needs of an average self employed developer? What expansion do you need that you couldn’t do externally on an iMac if you have “modest means” and so assume modest requirements?
      - BackBackBack 7y ago
        Mac mini has no expansion and is very thermally constrained. If you are a web developer and never do anything else it might be fine, but there are many kinds of developers, and some need custom hardware, custom PCI cards, multiple network adapters, normal consumer grade GPUs not on an external bus. In short, not the most extreme processing power but customization options. To be able to change hardware without throwing away the whole machine. Anyway, I love how Apple has convinced everybody that a ~$3000-$4000 machine cannot be pro and is not worthy of their engineering prowess because only modest, unsuccessful developers would spend such a small amount in a computer.
        scarface74 7y ago
        So in your personal case - a $4000 iMac wouldn’t meet your needs? The performance difference between an external GPU would be a deal breaker?
Barrin92 7y ago
I don't think the OP was saying that he doesn't deserve his money, but it really is absolutely absurd. Apple is an international company, worth a trillion dollars selling millions of devices. I work in the UK. I make about 80k a year pre-taxes. That's an average, if not relatively high salary for a developer. "Regular old enterprise developers" don't make 5000 bucks in two weeks, at least not in 99% of the developed world, not to speak of the rest. And it's true that technology in 1992 was very expensive, but technology is actually supposed to get cheaper, that's the entire point, you get more for less. If you pay more for the same, that's anti-technology
- scarface74 7y ago
  But if my parents - a teacher and a factory worker could afford it in 1992, are you really saying that a developer couldn’t? I live in Atlanta - almost as far from the west coast of the US that you can get and salaries are much lower than the west coast. They pay developers with 3-5 years of experience $65/hour on a 1099 (Corp to Corp) basis. Since this would be a tax deductible company expense, that would be less than two weeks working.
  - Barrin92 7y ago
    I mean I could technically afford it in the sense that I have enough money in the bank, but it's simply not justifiable. In 1992 hardware was expensive but the competition was fairly limited and Apple, even as recently as say 6-7 years ago with the iphone and macbook pro produced products were the premium was actually worth it. But now? I can buy a 1.5k desktop machine, throw linux and windows on it and I am a perfectly happy camper (and very happer developer). I can buy a 400$ phone and I hardly notice any difference in quality. I don't see, in the context of alternatives, why apple is seemingly raising prices at will and that makes me feel duped, regardless of what I earn.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      And if all you need is the power of a $1500 PC, you aren’t the target market for the Mac Pro. Apple has plenty other Macs that would meet your needs. If you can’t “justify” the need for a Mac Pro - (and neither can I) you aren’t the target market.
chipotle_coyote 7y ago
If you're a regular old enterprise developer, the chances are you don't actually need a $5000 iMac Pro, either. The stock 6-core 3.7GHz i5 iMac 5K for $2300 (maybe with another ~$100 for 16GB extra third-party memory to bring it internally up to 24GB) is going to be more than up to the challenge of most tasks.
- scarface74 7y ago
  I agree about the iMac.... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20143484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20143484 And the memory... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20143664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20143664
  - chipotle_coyote 7y ago
    Heh. The "buy with 8GB and add 16GB third-party" is what I actually did, although I have a Late 2015 iMac bought in early 2016. A bit over three years in and it's still feeling quite fast to me.