7 ms·

Back in 2012, I bought the original rMBP. It fit everything I needed: it was thinner than my previous laptop as it had no optical drive, it was lightweight, it

by colmvp 7y ago

Back in 2012, I bought the original rMBP. It fit everything I needed: it was thinner than my previous laptop as it had no optical drive, it was lightweight, it had a gorgeous screen, good enough keyboard, and seemed like a reasonable price for a higher end laptop work computer. I've used it everyday since 2012, and aside from the battery which I eventually replaced, it's been functioning without a hitch. From the 90s to the late 2000s, I used a variety of PC laptops and this was the only laptop that survived a huge amount of abuse from travel and daily usage (obviously, YMMV). I'd love to upgrade to a new MBP, but I truly don't understand what they were thinking with this current iteration. The touchbar feels gimmicky and over the top. Call me old school, but give me physical buttons any day of the week and keep the keyboard simple. Most importantly, give me a keyboard that has more room to press so that random dust getting in there isn't going to screw shit up.

fastball 7y ago
I'm giving up my spec'd out Macbook Pro 2015 over my cold, dead body.
- cs02rm0 7y ago
  My wife needed a MBP so I've bought a 2019 to replace my 2013 13" model. The i7 2.8GHz dual core is now an i5 2.4GHz quad core. The RAM is still 16GB. To keep the price roughly the same the 2019 is a fixed 512GB instead of an upgradeable 1TB. And of course, no escape or function keys but touch bar. And no SD card slot. And a keyboard replacement programme - I've replaced a few keys myself on the 2013 that wore out, I can't see me doing that one the 2019. The 2019 hasn't arrived yet. I'm genuinely not sure whether to give her the new one and keep the six year old one for myself. That it's even in question seems ridiculous.
  - thevagrant 7y ago
    My experience with a 2017 MBP has been good. If I were you, I'd give the 2019 model a try.
ianai 7y ago
The oled touchpad is ridiculous. I never use it “as intended” and it wrecks my function key muscle memory. My laptop is actually expanding because of the battery. I’d like at least a dock that does decent, active cooling.
- geerlingguy 7y ago
  You should be able to get a free top case/battery replacement for the ballooning battery issue. (Just FYI)
  - dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
    Do you have an online source backing this up? Because people report Apple does't care, at least in some cases: > Apple support have refused to provide any assistance, simply stating that the MacBookAir is out of warranty. They just said this behaviour (rapid expansion of a battery) "can be expected" in some cases. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3681221 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3681221
    - month13 7y ago
      If it's an expanded battery and you are out of warranty, they should only charge the cost of the battery to get that fixed up, so you wouldn't be out of pocket for the top case part (which is much more expensive) nor any other components that may have been damaged by the expansion.
- gshdg 7y ago
  Get that battery replaced stat. If it’s expanding, it’s a fire risk.
  - ianai 7y ago
    The replacement is ordered.
leoc 7y ago
The lack of function keys is not unprecedented, though. Well into the '90s Macs generally didn't have any. What do you use them for?
- chipotle_coyote 7y ago
  I don't mind the lack of function keys; I've realized to my mild surprise that the only things I tend to use them with have been bits and bobs I remapped myself with Keyboard Maestro (I used to have F13 remapped to...something or other, for instance) and the occasional terminal app that uses function keys. I do use media keys, but I've found the Touch Bar is by and large just fine for that. (I don't really have muscle memory associated with those, and controls like volume and brightness are fine use cases for a surface that can do sliders.) In practice, my only real complaints with the Touch Bar are (1) not enough things really find ways to take advantage of it, which contributes to its "just a gimmick" feel, and (2) GIVE ME BACK A PHYSICAL ESCAPE KEY.
  - leoc 7y ago
    The lack of a mechanical Escape is nuts, yes. But Apple could and should have dealt with that by moving the Escape to somewhere else on the keyboard. In fact they should have done that anyway, as Escape is too remote on the far left of the far-away function row. Given the the MBP keyboard as it is, most users should probably remap Esc to the Caps Lock key, at least if they don't tend to hit Caps Lock by accident.
    - chipotle_coyote 7y ago
      I used to remap caps lock as another control key, actually, but sure, they could put the escape key somewhere else. My muscle memory is for where the escape key is now. (...but I actually remap caps lock to escape in my iPad's terminal client, ironically, because the Brydge hardware keyboard has no escape key at all!)
  - bitL 7y ago
    There is this Karabiner software: https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ It allows remapping keys, so you could e.g. remap the whole top row from ~, 1 to 0 to act as ESC, F1 to F10 when needed. Not ideal but better than touch bar.
1024core 7y ago
As a vi user, I hate the touchbar and its escape "key". I sometimes find myself turning down the brightness instead of getting into command mode which is irritating.
- chrononaut 7y ago
  Speaking of vi and the touchbar, it took me an inappropriate amount of time to figure out why my terminal was sometimes changing colors while occasionally using vi..
- ink_13 7y ago
  Have you tried mapping Caps Lock to Esc?
  - vbezhenar 7y ago
    Caps Lock works as a Control key for me. Can't really reach built-in Control comfortably.
    - whiteacid 7y ago
      That was my problem too but I discovered the Karabiner Elements app which lets you map caps lock to escape when pressed alone and to control when held down.
- pryce 7y ago
  I hear this specific complaint often; I wonder if people don't realize the hit area of the escape key is much larger than the key itself. On my 2016 MBP I can fire it from almost a centimeter from its left edge I do wish there was some haptic feedback, and all my issues would go. Touchbar has been great for scrubbing, provides much finder-grained control of both brightness and volume than the keys did (fine-grained sliders for both the laptop display and attached thunderbolt display). Id happily agree that comfort-wise, I still prefer the longer-travel keys of the 2012-2015 era.
  - 7y ago
maxxxxx 7y ago
My company is a windows shop and around 2013 we wee looking at Macs to replace Windows. Back then Macs were quite competitively priced compared to Windows machines. But that seems over now.
Thorrez 7y ago
The article addresses this >To be fair, this story hasn’t ended yet. [... T]hey still need to resolve the problematic MacBook Pro with its next generation (rumors are promising)
jasonkester 7y ago
The worrying part is that in order to keep using the good MacBooks from the past, you need to keep them on the OS version that they shipped with. I have a 2012 MacBook Air that was crazy fast, weighed four grams, and even ran windows 7. Sure, the drive was small, but it was perfect. But some time in 2015 or so I made the terrible strategic blunder of upgrading to the latest OS version. Performance immediately dropped to zero, and now when I open it up for any reason, I just spend my whole time watching it spin uselessly trying to idle along with one browser tab open. It's sad to see it so reduced. I've had the same experience with every iPad I've ever owned. Delightful, responsive machines that get auto-updated to brick status over the course of about three years. (I have every model up to air 3, and the only one still working perfectly is the old 1st gen air that I've kept on iOS 8 and spend a minute every day carefully dismissing the auto update prompt). I have one of the sacred 2015 MacBook Pros, which now can't edit videos using the new format exported from my wife's iPhone x. An OS upgrade would solve that. But the machine is too precious to risk it. I don't know what the solution is.
- bitL 7y ago
  Upgrade your drive with a dedicated mSATA adaptor (you can still get Samsung 1TB mSATA drives). That could boost your performance.
  - kyboren 7y ago
    Actually, you can still get 2TB Samsung mSATA drives. The Samsung T5 and T3 external drives are just enclosures around mSATA parts.
- jordanthoms 7y ago
  I have seen that with my Late 2013 MBP (dgpu) as well - for some reason on High Sierra and Mojave the performance is significantly worse than Sierra (seems to be related to WindowServer process leaking memory). Haven't seen any issues with the latest OSX for the 2015 MBPs though, and unlike with iOS you can easily downgrade to an older OS if you do see issues.
- nathana 7y ago

by colmvp 7y ago

fastball 7y ago

I'm giving up my spec'd out Macbook Pro 2015 over my cold, dead body.

cs02rm0 7y ago
My wife needed a MBP so I've bought a 2019 to replace my 2013 13" model. The i7 2.8GHz dual core is now an i5 2.4GHz quad core. The RAM is still 16GB. To keep the price roughly the same the 2019 is a fixed 512GB instead of an upgradeable 1TB. And of course, no escape or function keys but touch bar. And no SD card slot. And a keyboard replacement programme - I've replaced a few keys myself on the 2013 that wore out, I can't see me doing that one the 2019. The 2019 hasn't arrived yet. I'm genuinely not sure whether to give her the new one and keep the six year old one for myself. That it's even in question seems ridiculous.
- thevagrant 7y ago
  My experience with a 2017 MBP has been good. If I were you, I'd give the 2019 model a try.

ianai 7y ago

The oled touchpad is ridiculous. I never use it “as intended” and it wrecks my function key muscle memory. My laptop is actually expanding because of the battery. I’d like at least a dock that does decent, active cooling.

geerlingguy 7y ago
You should be able to get a free top case/battery replacement for the ballooning battery issue. (Just FYI)
- dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
  Do you have an online source backing this up? Because people report Apple does't care, at least in some cases: > Apple support have refused to provide any assistance, simply stating that the MacBookAir is out of warranty. They just said this behaviour (rapid expansion of a battery) "can be expected" in some cases. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3681221 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3681221
  - month13 7y ago
    If it's an expanded battery and you are out of warranty, they should only charge the cost of the battery to get that fixed up, so you wouldn't be out of pocket for the top case part (which is much more expensive) nor any other components that may have been damaged by the expansion.
gshdg 7y ago
Get that battery replaced stat. If it’s expanding, it’s a fire risk.
- ianai 7y ago
  The replacement is ordered.

leoc 7y ago

The lack of function keys is not unprecedented, though. Well into the '90s Macs generally didn't have any. What do you use them for?

chipotle_coyote 7y ago
I don't mind the lack of function keys; I've realized to my mild surprise that the only things I tend to use them with have been bits and bobs I remapped myself with Keyboard Maestro (I used to have F13 remapped to...something or other, for instance) and the occasional terminal app that uses function keys. I do use media keys, but I've found the Touch Bar is by and large just fine for that. (I don't really have muscle memory associated with those, and controls like volume and brightness are fine use cases for a surface that can do sliders.) In practice, my only real complaints with the Touch Bar are (1) not enough things really find ways to take advantage of it, which contributes to its "just a gimmick" feel, and (2) GIVE ME BACK A PHYSICAL ESCAPE KEY.
- leoc 7y ago
  The lack of a mechanical Escape is nuts, yes. But Apple could and should have dealt with that by moving the Escape to somewhere else on the keyboard. In fact they should have done that anyway, as Escape is too remote on the far left of the far-away function row. Given the the MBP keyboard as it is, most users should probably remap Esc to the Caps Lock key, at least if they don't tend to hit Caps Lock by accident.
  - chipotle_coyote 7y ago
    I used to remap caps lock as another control key, actually, but sure, they could put the escape key somewhere else. My muscle memory is for where the escape key is now. (...but I actually remap caps lock to escape in my iPad's terminal client, ironically, because the Brydge hardware keyboard has no escape key at all!)
- bitL 7y ago
  There is this Karabiner software: https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ It allows remapping keys, so you could e.g. remap the whole top row from ~, 1 to 0 to act as ESC, F1 to F10 when needed. Not ideal but better than touch bar.

1024core 7y ago

As a vi user, I hate the touchbar and its escape "key". I sometimes find myself turning down the brightness instead of getting into command mode which is irritating.

chrononaut 7y ago
Speaking of vi and the touchbar, it took me an inappropriate amount of time to figure out why my terminal was sometimes changing colors while occasionally using vi..
ink_13 7y ago
Have you tried mapping Caps Lock to Esc?
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  Caps Lock works as a Control key for me. Can't really reach built-in Control comfortably.
  - whiteacid 7y ago
    That was my problem too but I discovered the Karabiner Elements app which lets you map caps lock to escape when pressed alone and to control when held down.
pryce 7y ago
I hear this specific complaint often; I wonder if people don't realize the hit area of the escape key is much larger than the key itself. On my 2016 MBP I can fire it from almost a centimeter from its left edge I do wish there was some haptic feedback, and all my issues would go. Touchbar has been great for scrubbing, provides much finder-grained control of both brightness and volume than the keys did (fine-grained sliders for both the laptop display and attached thunderbolt display). Id happily agree that comfort-wise, I still prefer the longer-travel keys of the 2012-2015 era.
- 7y ago

maxxxxx 7y ago

My company is a windows shop and around 2013 we wee looking at Macs to replace Windows. Back then Macs were quite competitively priced compared to Windows machines. But that seems over now.

Thorrez 7y ago

The article addresses this >To be fair, this story hasn’t ended yet. [... T]hey still need to resolve the problematic MacBook Pro with its next generation (rumors are promising)

jasonkester 7y ago

The worrying part is that in order to keep using the good MacBooks from the past, you need to keep them on the OS version that they shipped with. I have a 2012 MacBook Air that was crazy fast, weighed four grams, and even ran windows 7. Sure, the drive was small, but it was perfect. But some time in 2015 or so I made the terrible strategic blunder of upgrading to the latest OS version. Performance immediately dropped to zero, and now when I open it up for any reason, I just spend my whole time watching it spin uselessly trying to idle along with one browser tab open. It's sad to see it so reduced. I've had the same experience with every iPad I've ever owned. Delightful, responsive machines that get auto-updated to brick status over the course of about three years. (I have every model up to air 3, and the only one still working perfectly is the old 1st gen air that I've kept on iOS 8 and spend a minute every day carefully dismissing the auto update prompt). I have one of the sacred 2015 MacBook Pros, which now can't edit videos using the new format exported from my wife's iPhone x. An OS upgrade would solve that. But the machine is too precious to risk it. I don't know what the solution is.

bitL 7y ago
Upgrade your drive with a dedicated mSATA adaptor (you can still get Samsung 1TB mSATA drives). That could boost your performance.
- kyboren 7y ago
  Actually, you can still get 2TB Samsung mSATA drives. The Samsung T5 and T3 external drives are just enclosures around mSATA parts.
jordanthoms 7y ago
I have seen that with my Late 2013 MBP (dgpu) as well - for some reason on High Sierra and Mojave the performance is significantly worse than Sierra (seems to be related to WindowServer process leaking memory). Haven't seen any issues with the latest OSX for the 2015 MBPs though, and unlike with iOS you can easily downgrade to an older OS if you do see issues.
nathana 7y ago