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I'll believe it when they produce a MacBook Pro that developers love again or a Mac Pro that (not yet independently wealthy) developers can afford again.

marricks 7y ago
It doesn’t get me HN points to say, but I’m a developer who loves my MBP.
- kjhughes 7y ago
  I love my late 2013 MacBook Pro too, but I've been longing to replace it for years now, only to be disappointed time and again with each new MBP release. I'm still waiting and wishing for a model worth buying.
- OBLIQUE_PILLAR 7y ago
  are you a fan of the butterfly keyboard ?
  - simongr3dal 7y ago
    I’ve had the 2011 model 15” MBP and currently own a 2016 model 13” MBP and I love the butterfly keyboard. It is soul crushingly inconvenient and annoying when the keyboard breaks and you have to have it replaced. I’ve had mine replaced twice so far both times under warranty. Because Apple provides the extended 4-year warranty for free on the keyboard it is no longer a financial risk to own the computer, only an inconvenience if it breaks again. On the plus-side, because the whole computer is glued together I got a fresh new battery installed every time they replaced the keyboard.
    - dwaite 7y ago
      They have improved the repairability of the keyboard itself over time, and have recently started doing in-house repairs/replacements of the keyboards at Apple Stores to cut down wait times.
  - Phlarp 7y ago
    I have a 2017 15" and my girlfriend has a 2016 13", we both do technical work with these machines as our primary work devices. Neither of us have any issues with the keyboard other than the clearly above average failure rates and the hassle of getting it repaired. My 15" has not exhibited any issues at all, the slightly older 13" has started to develop some stickiness with the arrow keys. Obviously there are issues with this keyboard and I eagerly await a redesign on it (as well as haptic feedback on the touchbar and making the touchbar option across all models). On the whole I'm quite happy with the extended warranty as it essentially amounts to free AppleCare+, and given their insistence on making the overall device unserviceable it also amounts to a deductible free midlife battery replacement. It's an elegant solution to the whole fiasco in my mind-- the cost of servicing all these keyboards has to be painful beyond normal for them given that ridiculous design, magnified further by the fact that end users should have no problems encouraging the keyboard to fail if/when they want a scratch free case or 0 cycle battery. To say nothing of how it undermines the value of AppleCare as a service, both because you can get nearly the same thing for free, and the existence of the keyboard program is straining their staff resources on repairs, which are otherwise almost exclusively devoted to AppleCare customers.
  - eatfish 7y ago
    Not the OP and I wouldn't say I'm a fan but I've made some peace with it by putting a membrane cover over the top and so far: (a) not one dust related casualty in the past 18 months and (b) it subdues the clackety-clack of the keys into something that's actually quite pleasant. However, the touchbar...still a pointless gimick.
  - empath75 7y ago
    Amusingly, I spilt a coke in mine a few months ago and other than 1 or 2 keys sticking every once in a while, it’s still working fine.
- stephenr 7y ago
  I’m pretty happy with mine too, but mine isn’t used daily, just when the Mini has an issue or I go out of the (home) office and need to work.
- fastball 7y ago
  You love it more than the 2015 MBP?
- kylehotchkiss 7y ago
  Me too. I have a 2017 13in and a 2018 15in. My wife has a 2018 13in as well. We’ve had some minor issues that AppleCare resolved but other than that I love how crazy fast the SSD are and how cool and quiet they generally will run.
scarface74 7y ago
As far as a desktop Mac, a suitably configured iMac is more than powerful enough for development. A $2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz (turbo boost to 4Ghz), 256GB SSD, 16GB of RAM. The RAM is user upgradable and an external SSD drive would be as fast as any normal internal SSD drive. As far as a laptop? I'm not spending my own money on a development class laptop. I hate developing with just a laptop. I have a dual external monitor setup at home and at work. My next personal computer will definitely be a desktop. You still get more power and more thermal headroom on desktops than more expensive laptops.
- kjhughes 7y ago
  A "$2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz" is not a substantial improvement over my late 2013 MacBook Pro (2.6 GHz, 4 core i7), which can both travel to client sites and directly drive 2 x 3840 x 2160 pixels on my desktop displays. No new MBP's have been worth buying. The new Mac Pro is nice but crazy expensive in a configuration I'd expected to be buying in 2019.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    No normal non pro computer is a substantial improvement since 2013. Computers have been "good enough" for awhile.
    - kjhughes 7y ago
      I'm neither interested in nor discussing here "normal non pro computer[s]". It was you who suggested a "$2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz" to me. I merely explained why it doesn't, IMO, demonstrate that Apple is Listening.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        Because Intel hasn’t created a consumer processor that is significantly faster than what they did in 2013 that means Apple isn’t listening? What hardware (besides a reliable keyboard) could Apple ship in a laptop in 2019 that would make it a worthy upgrade?
L_Rahman 7y ago
Apple's desktop options are actually quite strong right now. If you just want a really powerful desktop computer for dev work - get a souped up Mac Mini If you want it with a nice screen - get an iMac Pro If you're a video professional - get a Mac Pro The Macbook Pro keyboard situation is a garbage fire, though I will say that I'm quite happy with my 2016 keyboard after it got replaced for free through the program.
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  Mac Mini is not a really powerful desktop. It's has mediocre CPU with terrible cooling (not allowing it to reach even full potential), built-in GPU and non-standard soldered SSD. I want 16 core CPU (probably Threadripper, as Intel is unable to produce anything competitive recently) with Nvidia 2080 Ti or better GPU, and 32GB ECC memory for $2k.
  - _ph_ 7y ago
    And if Apple made it and put it into a nice case, I would happily pay $3k or even a slight bit more for it.
jitl 7y ago
I love my 2019 MBP - and I expect I’ll love it until the keyboard fails, and then I’ll hate it. Because it has a large, accurate trackpad with multitasking gestures, I’ve all but abandoned my combo of Kenesis Advantage and Logitech Pro MX - it feels more efficient to move my hand less.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
psnosignaluk 7y ago
As I sit here looking at the stupid TouchBar, the hunk of aftermarket plastic that contains an HDMI port, Thunderbolt port and USB ports hanging off the side of my MacBook Pro so that I can connect my peripherals, the TouchPad I never use and the keyboard I hate, I can't help but wonder if I'm just an idiot for buying Mac after Mac after Mac. I've run Apple products since 2007 and this is the feeling I'm left with. When my iPhone 7 decided to stop working, I ended up getting a Pixel 3a because it was cheap and good enough for what I want to do with a phone. I'm looking at my laptop the same way. I can't shake the feeling that for my use, I'd be happier on a Thinkpad T480. If I can self-upgrade that second NVME to whatever I want, it'd be a ripping machine to run in i7-8550U 32GB RAM 1440p trim, and comes with a second 72Wh battery, for less than £1800.
- heisenbit 7y ago
  I just replaced my 13' mid2012 MBP with a 12' 2019 MBP. Newer software, Spectre updates and driving my Thunderbolt monitor was getting too much for the 7 year old machine which overheated and slowed it down to a crawl whenever things moved fast on the screen. My old Thunderbolt monitor is now augmented with a Dell UHD monitor + CalDigit dock which cost together roughly the same. The new MBP is driving both with ease. My desk cabling is as clean as before with the added advantage that I can plug in the Windows laptop into the monitor when I'm occupationally forced to use is. I was worried a bit about the keyboard but the latest generation seems to have a little more travel and Apple is backing it for four years. I mostly use it with a full size keyboard so the lack of ESC key is nuisance I can live with. Price is an issue but considering that I upgrade only every 4-6 years and value the smooth operation of the setup I'm ok with it - even if should be 20% less imho. I worry however about accessibility of Macs for people who can't afford to spend so much. Last year Apple PC sales shrunk by 3.8% which is o.k. as the market shrunk by 4.3 but is abysmal considering how superior their product is.
- dusty_mc_dusty 7y ago
  Been there and back again
- auggierose 7y ago
  If you never use the TouchPad you are probably not the typical MacBook Pro user ...

marricks 7y ago

It doesn’t get me HN points to say, but I’m a developer who loves my MBP.

kjhughes 7y ago
I love my late 2013 MacBook Pro too, but I've been longing to replace it for years now, only to be disappointed time and again with each new MBP release. I'm still waiting and wishing for a model worth buying.
OBLIQUE_PILLAR 7y ago
are you a fan of the butterfly keyboard ?
- simongr3dal 7y ago
  I’ve had the 2011 model 15” MBP and currently own a 2016 model 13” MBP and I love the butterfly keyboard. It is soul crushingly inconvenient and annoying when the keyboard breaks and you have to have it replaced. I’ve had mine replaced twice so far both times under warranty. Because Apple provides the extended 4-year warranty for free on the keyboard it is no longer a financial risk to own the computer, only an inconvenience if it breaks again. On the plus-side, because the whole computer is glued together I got a fresh new battery installed every time they replaced the keyboard.
  - dwaite 7y ago
    They have improved the repairability of the keyboard itself over time, and have recently started doing in-house repairs/replacements of the keyboards at Apple Stores to cut down wait times.
- Phlarp 7y ago
  I have a 2017 15" and my girlfriend has a 2016 13", we both do technical work with these machines as our primary work devices. Neither of us have any issues with the keyboard other than the clearly above average failure rates and the hassle of getting it repaired. My 15" has not exhibited any issues at all, the slightly older 13" has started to develop some stickiness with the arrow keys. Obviously there are issues with this keyboard and I eagerly await a redesign on it (as well as haptic feedback on the touchbar and making the touchbar option across all models). On the whole I'm quite happy with the extended warranty as it essentially amounts to free AppleCare+, and given their insistence on making the overall device unserviceable it also amounts to a deductible free midlife battery replacement. It's an elegant solution to the whole fiasco in my mind-- the cost of servicing all these keyboards has to be painful beyond normal for them given that ridiculous design, magnified further by the fact that end users should have no problems encouraging the keyboard to fail if/when they want a scratch free case or 0 cycle battery. To say nothing of how it undermines the value of AppleCare as a service, both because you can get nearly the same thing for free, and the existence of the keyboard program is straining their staff resources on repairs, which are otherwise almost exclusively devoted to AppleCare customers.
- eatfish 7y ago
  Not the OP and I wouldn't say I'm a fan but I've made some peace with it by putting a membrane cover over the top and so far: (a) not one dust related casualty in the past 18 months and (b) it subdues the clackety-clack of the keys into something that's actually quite pleasant. However, the touchbar...still a pointless gimick.
- empath75 7y ago
  Amusingly, I spilt a coke in mine a few months ago and other than 1 or 2 keys sticking every once in a while, it’s still working fine.
stephenr 7y ago
I’m pretty happy with mine too, but mine isn’t used daily, just when the Mini has an issue or I go out of the (home) office and need to work.
fastball 7y ago
You love it more than the 2015 MBP?
kylehotchkiss 7y ago
Me too. I have a 2017 13in and a 2018 15in. My wife has a 2018 13in as well. We’ve had some minor issues that AppleCare resolved but other than that I love how crazy fast the SSD are and how cool and quiet they generally will run.

scarface74 7y ago

As far as a desktop Mac, a suitably configured iMac is more than powerful enough for development. A $2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz (turbo boost to 4Ghz), 256GB SSD, 16GB of RAM. The RAM is user upgradable and an external SSD drive would be as fast as any normal internal SSD drive. As far as a laptop? I'm not spending my own money on a development class laptop. I hate developing with just a laptop. I have a dual external monitor setup at home and at work. My next personal computer will definitely be a desktop. You still get more power and more thermal headroom on desktops than more expensive laptops.

kjhughes 7y ago
A "$2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz" is not a substantial improvement over my late 2013 MacBook Pro (2.6 GHz, 4 core i7), which can both travel to client sites and directly drive 2 x 3840 x 2160 pixels on my desktop displays. No new MBP's have been worth buying. The new Mac Pro is nice but crazy expensive in a configuration I'd expected to be buying in 2019.
- scarface74 7y ago
  No normal non pro computer is a substantial improvement since 2013. Computers have been "good enough" for awhile.
  - kjhughes 7y ago
    I'm neither interested in nor discussing here "normal non pro computer[s]". It was you who suggested a "$2100 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 3Ghz" to me. I merely explained why it doesn't, IMO, demonstrate that Apple is Listening.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Because Intel hasn’t created a consumer processor that is significantly faster than what they did in 2013 that means Apple isn’t listening? What hardware (besides a reliable keyboard) could Apple ship in a laptop in 2019 that would make it a worthy upgrade?

L_Rahman 7y ago

Apple's desktop options are actually quite strong right now. If you just want a really powerful desktop computer for dev work - get a souped up Mac Mini If you want it with a nice screen - get an iMac Pro If you're a video professional - get a Mac Pro The Macbook Pro keyboard situation is a garbage fire, though I will say that I'm quite happy with my 2016 keyboard after it got replaced for free through the program.

vbezhenar 7y ago
Mac Mini is not a really powerful desktop. It's has mediocre CPU with terrible cooling (not allowing it to reach even full potential), built-in GPU and non-standard soldered SSD. I want 16 core CPU (probably Threadripper, as Intel is unable to produce anything competitive recently) with Nvidia 2080 Ti or better GPU, and 32GB ECC memory for $2k.
- _ph_ 7y ago
  And if Apple made it and put it into a nice case, I would happily pay $3k or even a slight bit more for it.

jitl 7y ago

I love my 2019 MBP - and I expect I’ll love it until the keyboard fails, and then I’ll hate it. Because it has a large, accurate trackpad with multitasking gestures, I’ve all but abandoned my combo of Kenesis Advantage and Logitech Pro MX - it feels more efficient to move my hand less.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

psnosignaluk 7y ago

As I sit here looking at the stupid TouchBar, the hunk of aftermarket plastic that contains an HDMI port, Thunderbolt port and USB ports hanging off the side of my MacBook Pro so that I can connect my peripherals, the TouchPad I never use and the keyboard I hate, I can't help but wonder if I'm just an idiot for buying Mac after Mac after Mac. I've run Apple products since 2007 and this is the feeling I'm left with. When my iPhone 7 decided to stop working, I ended up getting a Pixel 3a because it was cheap and good enough for what I want to do with a phone. I'm looking at my laptop the same way. I can't shake the feeling that for my use, I'd be happier on a Thinkpad T480. If I can self-upgrade that second NVME to whatever I want, it'd be a ripping machine to run in i7-8550U 32GB RAM 1440p trim, and comes with a second 72Wh battery, for less than £1800.

heisenbit 7y ago
I just replaced my 13' mid2012 MBP with a 12' 2019 MBP. Newer software, Spectre updates and driving my Thunderbolt monitor was getting too much for the 7 year old machine which overheated and slowed it down to a crawl whenever things moved fast on the screen. My old Thunderbolt monitor is now augmented with a Dell UHD monitor + CalDigit dock which cost together roughly the same. The new MBP is driving both with ease. My desk cabling is as clean as before with the added advantage that I can plug in the Windows laptop into the monitor when I'm occupationally forced to use is. I was worried a bit about the keyboard but the latest generation seems to have a little more travel and Apple is backing it for four years. I mostly use it with a full size keyboard so the lack of ESC key is nuisance I can live with. Price is an issue but considering that I upgrade only every 4-6 years and value the smooth operation of the setup I'm ok with it - even if should be 20% less imho. I worry however about accessibility of Macs for people who can't afford to spend so much. Last year Apple PC sales shrunk by 3.8% which is o.k. as the market shrunk by 4.3 but is abysmal considering how superior their product is.
dusty_mc_dusty 7y ago
Been there and back again
auggierose 7y ago
If you never use the TouchPad you are probably not the typical MacBook Pro user ...