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> And probably I will get downvoted by mentioning this. The Tiananmen Square massacre, which originated due to the protesters fighting for more freedom/human ri

> And probably I will get downvoted by mentioning this. The Tiananmen Square massacre, which originated due to the protesters fighting for more freedom/human rights, from I heard from my uncle, it was because of the influence from westerners. Marxism, or the morphed variety of the CCP, also originates from the West. That doesn’t mean that Mao or the 6/4 movement didn’t have a genuine appreciation of “Western ideas” and want to implement them. And yes, the West causes lots of problems. At least there is freedom to discuss them, and the probability of being sent to a camp for pointing things out is extremely low. That doesn’t discredit Western ideas; indeed, the self-awareness and capacity for self-criticism of the West is an important feature of its political system that the CCP increasingly lacks.

wltprgm 7y ago
> Marxism, or the morphed variety of the CCP, also originates from the West. That doesn’t mean that Mao or the 6/4 movement didn’t have a genuine appreciation of “Western ideas” and want to implement them. You may as well say the earth belongs to the West now? > And yes, the West causes lots of problems. At least there is freedom to discuss them, and the probability of being sent to a camp for pointing things out is extremely low. That doesn’t discredit Western ideas; indeed, the self-awareness and capacity for self-criticism of the West is an important feature of its political system that the CCP increasingly lacks. Not sure if your "view" is rightfully "RIGHT". Did you even count how many people have died due to the wars caused by the West? Human rights is definitely important, but in the eyes of CCP, the West is more of a threat, this is not current, I think it started from the Opium war? Moreover, the recent banning Huawei cases, The West is right about this? I think you might not know, it's because of the power of 5G, US wants to have it first. Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQTo9usai4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQTo9usai4 edit: again, downvoted me for no reason, hacker news, what's the point of the upvote/downvote button anyway when I am talking the truth? such forum that's praised for intelligent
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  You're being downvoted because you seem to just be here to argue. You're not interacting with peoples' responses to you very much, just throwing out a blizzard of new accusations. That's not a conversation, it's just a rant. HN isn't the place for that.
  - wltprgm 7y ago
    > because you seem to just be here to argue. You are right. I should change my tone. > You're not interacting with peoples' responses to you very much, just throwing out a blizzard of new accusations. I think I have made my point even though it was harsh. This thread is about protest in Hong Kong, and what the list of accusations (as you said) don't spread too far away, since it relates to the same thing.
    - emj 7y ago
      I'm not really sure what your harsh point is to be honest, please expand! Massacres and atrocities are no easy things to discuss. I've spoken to survivors of the holocaust in Europe, and the Rwandan genocide, you have obviously not heard anyone participating in Tiananmen square talk about the events? It's very hard to talk so lightly about massacares when you have heard personal anecdotes and the hard ships that the people went trough.
      - wltprgm 7y ago
        While in this particular Hong Kong protest case, it was influenced by the west (or western values). So my only point is that the west has caused more troubles than ever for the world. (Which is why I go on and talk about the wars etc) Perhaps I am wrong, it was the history written by someone else. > Massacres and atrocities are no easy things to discuss. I've spoken to survivors of the holocaust in Europe, and the Rwandan genocide, you have obviously not heard anyone participating in Tiananmen square talk about the events? It's very hard to talk so lightly about massacares when you have heard personal anecdotes and the hard ships that the people went trough. I don't talk about this at all. (not that I am cold hearted if the impression I left for you was such, I am sorry) edit: I made a mistake, I mean I don't talk about the details of massacres and atrocities. I just mentioned the title of them.
- yorwba 7y ago
  > downvoted me for no reason, hacker news, what's the point of the upvote/downvote button anyway In case you are genuinely confused why people would downvote you: you bring up a lot of issues like 6/4, the Opium Wars, Huawei ... that only fit into a coherent topic if you make it incredibly broad, e.g. "China vs. the West". It is hard to have a good discussion on a topic that broad, and by bringing up so many different issues you spread yourself too thin and argue none of your points particularly well. If you were to focus on a single on-topic issue, try to provide some additional relevant information and keep your value judgment out of it (voting on opinionated comments is inevitably going to be opinion-based), it would at least make for good reading.

wltprgm 7y ago

> Marxism, or the morphed variety of the CCP, also originates from the West. That doesn’t mean that Mao or the 6/4 movement didn’t have a genuine appreciation of “Western ideas” and want to implement them. You may as well say the earth belongs to the West now? > And yes, the West causes lots of problems. At least there is freedom to discuss them, and the probability of being sent to a camp for pointing things out is extremely low. That doesn’t discredit Western ideas; indeed, the self-awareness and capacity for self-criticism of the West is an important feature of its political system that the CCP increasingly lacks. Not sure if your "view" is rightfully "RIGHT". Did you even count how many people have died due to the wars caused by the West? Human rights is definitely important, but in the eyes of CCP, the West is more of a threat, this is not current, I think it started from the Opium war? Moreover, the recent banning Huawei cases, The West is right about this? I think you might not know, it's because of the power of 5G, US wants to have it first. Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQTo9usai4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQTo9usai4 edit: again, downvoted me for no reason, hacker news, what's the point of the upvote/downvote button anyway when I am talking the truth? such forum that's praised for intelligent

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
You're being downvoted because you seem to just be here to argue. You're not interacting with peoples' responses to you very much, just throwing out a blizzard of new accusations. That's not a conversation, it's just a rant. HN isn't the place for that.
- wltprgm 7y ago
  > because you seem to just be here to argue. You are right. I should change my tone. > You're not interacting with peoples' responses to you very much, just throwing out a blizzard of new accusations. I think I have made my point even though it was harsh. This thread is about protest in Hong Kong, and what the list of accusations (as you said) don't spread too far away, since it relates to the same thing.
  - emj 7y ago
    I'm not really sure what your harsh point is to be honest, please expand! Massacres and atrocities are no easy things to discuss. I've spoken to survivors of the holocaust in Europe, and the Rwandan genocide, you have obviously not heard anyone participating in Tiananmen square talk about the events? It's very hard to talk so lightly about massacares when you have heard personal anecdotes and the hard ships that the people went trough.
    - wltprgm 7y ago
      While in this particular Hong Kong protest case, it was influenced by the west (or western values). So my only point is that the west has caused more troubles than ever for the world. (Which is why I go on and talk about the wars etc) Perhaps I am wrong, it was the history written by someone else. > Massacres and atrocities are no easy things to discuss. I've spoken to survivors of the holocaust in Europe, and the Rwandan genocide, you have obviously not heard anyone participating in Tiananmen square talk about the events? It's very hard to talk so lightly about massacares when you have heard personal anecdotes and the hard ships that the people went trough. I don't talk about this at all. (not that I am cold hearted if the impression I left for you was such, I am sorry) edit: I made a mistake, I mean I don't talk about the details of massacres and atrocities. I just mentioned the title of them.
yorwba 7y ago
> downvoted me for no reason, hacker news, what's the point of the upvote/downvote button anyway In case you are genuinely confused why people would downvote you: you bring up a lot of issues like 6/4, the Opium Wars, Huawei ... that only fit into a coherent topic if you make it incredibly broad, e.g. "China vs. the West". It is hard to have a good discussion on a topic that broad, and by bringing up so many different issues you spread yourself too thin and argue none of your points particularly well. If you were to focus on a single on-topic issue, try to provide some additional relevant information and keep your value judgment out of it (voting on opinionated comments is inevitably going to be opinion-based), it would at least make for good reading.