5 ms·

Yes, and the next logical question would be: what has changed in Geneva these past 30 years? Hints: individualism, globalization, multiculturalism. My father t

by sunseb 7y ago

Yes, and the next logical question would be: what has changed in Geneva these past 30 years? Hints: individualism, globalization, multiculturalism. My father told me that when he served for our national army back then, soldiers just left their weapons alone in front of the train station while they were having a coffee before going into the train.

lazyasciiart 7y ago
Other hints: increased population, increased levels of education, more flavors of ice cream available...
- mantas 7y ago
  TIL increased levels of education causes lower morals
- bongobongo 7y ago
  Don’t forget the proliferation of smartphones and the rise of stomp and holler music. Probably.
- sunseb 7y ago
  Foreigners now account for 80% of the prison population in Switzerland: https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/02/08/foreigners-make-up-80-percent-of-swiss-prison-inmates/ https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/02/08/foreigners-make-... IQ scores are falling and have been for decades, new study finds: https://www.sciencealert.com/iq-scores-falling-in-worrying-reversal-20th-century-intelligence-boom-flynn-effect-intelligence https://www.sciencealert.com/iq-scores-falling-in-worrying-r... https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html
  - gpvos 7y ago
    Please note that the falling IQ has nothing to do with the foreigners, at least not according to the linked study; IQ is going down even within families.
    - rjf72 7y ago
      These things are not mutually exclusive. The study [1] showed that the data indicated that IQs between brothers reduced far less rapidly than the IQ for the population as a whole: "Between the 1975 and 1991 cohorts, the average annual decline estimated using within-family variation is attenuated by almost two-thirds relative to the across-family trend: −0.08 IQ point per year versus −0.23 point per year (SI Appendix, Table S3, columns 1 and 3)." They then extensively massaged the data to make this difference disappear, which is what yields the headline. They did provide perfectly valid justifications for such, including the fact that IQ testing data was missing disproportionately often from brothers where the brother who had data available was of a low IQ. They thus proposed that the high heritability of IQ would then suggest that the missing data is probably disproportionately weighted against IQ, so that's what they did. Nonetheless this massaging of the data opens the door to methodological problems. It enables researchers to choose the factors that they consider most relevant and to determine effective weighting for such. You will tend to find in this scenario that individuals who have the preconceived notion of 'x' end up choosing factors that show 'x'. And vice versa for those who assume 'y.' This isn't necessarily even malfeasance, but simply the fact that trying to control for a practically infinite number of possible confounding issues is as much an art as a science, and preconceived notions are going to end up being reflected in what one chooses. For instance my bias is self evident and if I were going to pursue this sort of balancing I would certainly be sure to try to control for factors such as increasing paternal age, fertility assistance, and other things which can have negative effects on IQ. Some studies have even connected higher IQ parents to various disorders including autism which may mitigate against the missing IQ data bias. Controlling for these things is important. The reason that these researchers neglected them is not out of malfeasance, but because you can come up with a practically infinite number of things you need to control for. And so peoples biases end up reflecting the issues they find important. The ultimate point is that I think the most impartial idea is to look at the data alone, so much as possible. This study made some fairly extreme changes to the data. Of course if my biases were different, I'd probably be singing a different tune. Isn't social "science" fun? [1] - https://www.pnas.org/content/115/26/6674 https://www.pnas.org/content/115/26/6674
  - markvdb 7y ago
    Please vet your sources if you want an audience here. Whatever message you wanted to get across drowned because of the Breitbart quote.
    - sunseb 7y ago
      Sorry I didn't know Breitbart. I posted a link to this website, because it was in English and most of the sources I have are from Swiss newspapers (in French or in German). For example, this link (from the Swiss national TV) : https://www.rts.ch/info/regions/fribourg/9345276--les-prisons-romandes-paient-les-factures-de-la-politique-migratoire-.html https://www.rts.ch/info/regions/fribourg/9345276--les-prison...
  - netsharc 7y ago
    LOL, Breitbart. Quoting a French language source... Let's quote the same institution (Swiss Radio/TV) https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.srf.ch%2Fnews%2Fschweiz%2Fschweizer-strafvollzug-warum-die-zahl-der-haeftlinge-zugenommen-hat https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https... TL;DR: If you have legal residency in Switzerland, they'd rather let you serve your time outside of prison; but without residency, you'd probably leave the country if they don't put you in prison. Maybe blame Schengen but it seems most Swiss would rather have borders that are faster to cross... > The number of foreign detainees has increased significantly. 30 years ago, 56 percent of prison inmates were foreigners, most recently 71 percent. Weber says: "The legislator has increasingly introduced alternatives to prison for Swiss prisoners. I'm thinking of charitable work or electronically supervised house arrest. " > However, such measures would only be suitable for people with a low risk of escape, ie persons with a secured, legal stay in Switzerland. These are mostly Swiss, but not foreign offenders resident abroad. > Exactly the proportion of such criminal tourists has recently increased sharply. Over the last decade, they already account for the majority, 52 percent of all inmates. The society has become generally more mobile in the last 30 years, the same applies to offenders, the criminal law professor. "You can travel cheaper than before. So it is more likely that they go from, for example, Eastern European countries to Switzerland for a few days and then travel back."
Leherenn 7y ago
Free newspapers as well, they are available in pretty much every station or next to some bus stops. It must be hard for the business.
netsharc 7y ago
IS "globalization" and "multiculturalism" just euphimisms of "Those damn non-white people!"?
- radiator 7y ago
  Different people have different honor systems, different cultures. Trick or treat? https://imgur.com/KJvJgT2 https://imgur.com/KJvJgT2
  - trash_44390 7y ago
    Different cultures produce different outcomes and arise from different biologies under the pressures of different environments. We live in cowardly times where the instant gratification of believing you're the morally superior person outweighs everything else.
- sunseb 7y ago
  I don't mean that at all! I am simply suggesting that mixing multiple cultures, religions and belief systems is harmful to the identity and the self-trust of a nation. For example, in my city, they are building new pavements. They are building them high enough so a crazy Islamic guy can't run into pedestrians with his car (like one did in France and in Germany). As a Swiss citizen, I have the right to say I am not happy with that without being accused of racism! Of course you are welcome here if you are intelligent and respectful (like all the US people I have met here).
  - girvo 7y ago
    Van attacks aren’t limited to Islamic extremism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack
    - cameronbrown 7y ago
      Sample size n=1 there especially when there are many more examples of the opposite.
snovv_crash 7y ago
IMO: it has to do with the number of repeat interactions you will have with people. When you interact more than twice with the same people, Game Theory says it is better to act honorably. At 2 interactions it is roughly balanced, and with a single interaction it is better (as an individual) to cheat. These assume balanced payoff/penalty, but changing the penalty only works to a certain extent and humans are very bad at evaluating the payoff of low-risk high-penalty actions, essentially becoming used to the risk after a while as they learn from repeated actions that they don't get caught (until they do). So, the question is why repeat interactions have gone down. I guess larger communities, and better transport means just in terms of regular day-to-day you don't have many repeat interactions, and this changes mindsets of people inclined to crime in terms of what they think they can get away with, at least to start with. It also explains to some extent the distrust small communities have to strangers, where they are not used to living with that regular stranger-danger that people in cities constantly deal with.
vkou 7y ago
Obviously, the reduction in atmospheric CFCs since the signing of the Montreal Accord is the culprit.

by sunseb 7y ago

lazyasciiart 7y ago

Other hints: increased population, increased levels of education, more flavors of ice cream available...

mantas 7y ago
TIL increased levels of education causes lower morals
bongobongo 7y ago
Don’t forget the proliferation of smartphones and the rise of stomp and holler music. Probably.
sunseb 7y ago
Foreigners now account for 80% of the prison population in Switzerland: https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/02/08/foreigners-make-up-80-percent-of-swiss-prison-inmates/ https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/02/08/foreigners-make-... IQ scores are falling and have been for decades, new study finds: https://www.sciencealert.com/iq-scores-falling-in-worrying-reversal-20th-century-intelligence-boom-flynn-effect-intelligence https://www.sciencealert.com/iq-scores-falling-in-worrying-r... https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html
- gpvos 7y ago
  Please note that the falling IQ has nothing to do with the foreigners, at least not according to the linked study; IQ is going down even within families.
  - rjf72 7y ago
    These things are not mutually exclusive. The study [1] showed that the data indicated that IQs between brothers reduced far less rapidly than the IQ for the population as a whole: "Between the 1975 and 1991 cohorts, the average annual decline estimated using within-family variation is attenuated by almost two-thirds relative to the across-family trend: −0.08 IQ point per year versus −0.23 point per year (SI Appendix, Table S3, columns 1 and 3)." They then extensively massaged the data to make this difference disappear, which is what yields the headline. They did provide perfectly valid justifications for such, including the fact that IQ testing data was missing disproportionately often from brothers where the brother who had data available was of a low IQ. They thus proposed that the high heritability of IQ would then suggest that the missing data is probably disproportionately weighted against IQ, so that's what they did. Nonetheless this massaging of the data opens the door to methodological problems. It enables researchers to choose the factors that they consider most relevant and to determine effective weighting for such. You will tend to find in this scenario that individuals who have the preconceived notion of 'x' end up choosing factors that show 'x'. And vice versa for those who assume 'y.' This isn't necessarily even malfeasance, but simply the fact that trying to control for a practically infinite number of possible confounding issues is as much an art as a science, and preconceived notions are going to end up being reflected in what one chooses. For instance my bias is self evident and if I were going to pursue this sort of balancing I would certainly be sure to try to control for factors such as increasing paternal age, fertility assistance, and other things which can have negative effects on IQ. Some studies have even connected higher IQ parents to various disorders including autism which may mitigate against the missing IQ data bias. Controlling for these things is important. The reason that these researchers neglected them is not out of malfeasance, but because you can come up with a practically infinite number of things you need to control for. And so peoples biases end up reflecting the issues they find important. The ultimate point is that I think the most impartial idea is to look at the data alone, so much as possible. This study made some fairly extreme changes to the data. Of course if my biases were different, I'd probably be singing a different tune. Isn't social "science" fun? [1] - https://www.pnas.org/content/115/26/6674 https://www.pnas.org/content/115/26/6674
- markvdb 7y ago
  Please vet your sources if you want an audience here. Whatever message you wanted to get across drowned because of the Breitbart quote.
  - sunseb 7y ago
    Sorry I didn't know Breitbart. I posted a link to this website, because it was in English and most of the sources I have are from Swiss newspapers (in French or in German). For example, this link (from the Swiss national TV) : https://www.rts.ch/info/regions/fribourg/9345276--les-prisons-romandes-paient-les-factures-de-la-politique-migratoire-.html https://www.rts.ch/info/regions/fribourg/9345276--les-prison...
- netsharc 7y ago
  LOL, Breitbart. Quoting a French language source... Let's quote the same institution (Swiss Radio/TV) https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.srf.ch%2Fnews%2Fschweiz%2Fschweizer-strafvollzug-warum-die-zahl-der-haeftlinge-zugenommen-hat https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https... TL;DR: If you have legal residency in Switzerland, they'd rather let you serve your time outside of prison; but without residency, you'd probably leave the country if they don't put you in prison. Maybe blame Schengen but it seems most Swiss would rather have borders that are faster to cross... > The number of foreign detainees has increased significantly. 30 years ago, 56 percent of prison inmates were foreigners, most recently 71 percent. Weber says: "The legislator has increasingly introduced alternatives to prison for Swiss prisoners. I'm thinking of charitable work or electronically supervised house arrest. " > However, such measures would only be suitable for people with a low risk of escape, ie persons with a secured, legal stay in Switzerland. These are mostly Swiss, but not foreign offenders resident abroad. > Exactly the proportion of such criminal tourists has recently increased sharply. Over the last decade, they already account for the majority, 52 percent of all inmates. The society has become generally more mobile in the last 30 years, the same applies to offenders, the criminal law professor. "You can travel cheaper than before. So it is more likely that they go from, for example, Eastern European countries to Switzerland for a few days and then travel back."

Leherenn 7y ago

Free newspapers as well, they are available in pretty much every station or next to some bus stops. It must be hard for the business.

netsharc 7y ago

IS "globalization" and "multiculturalism" just euphimisms of "Those damn non-white people!"?

radiator 7y ago
Different people have different honor systems, different cultures. Trick or treat? https://imgur.com/KJvJgT2 https://imgur.com/KJvJgT2
- trash_44390 7y ago
  Different cultures produce different outcomes and arise from different biologies under the pressures of different environments. We live in cowardly times where the instant gratification of believing you're the morally superior person outweighs everything else.
sunseb 7y ago
I don't mean that at all! I am simply suggesting that mixing multiple cultures, religions and belief systems is harmful to the identity and the self-trust of a nation. For example, in my city, they are building new pavements. They are building them high enough so a crazy Islamic guy can't run into pedestrians with his car (like one did in France and in Germany). As a Swiss citizen, I have the right to say I am not happy with that without being accused of racism! Of course you are welcome here if you are intelligent and respectful (like all the US people I have met here).
- girvo 7y ago
  Van attacks aren’t limited to Islamic extremism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack
  - cameronbrown 7y ago
    Sample size n=1 there especially when there are many more examples of the opposite.

snovv_crash 7y ago

IMO: it has to do with the number of repeat interactions you will have with people. When you interact more than twice with the same people, Game Theory says it is better to act honorably. At 2 interactions it is roughly balanced, and with a single interaction it is better (as an individual) to cheat. These assume balanced payoff/penalty, but changing the penalty only works to a certain extent and humans are very bad at evaluating the payoff of low-risk high-penalty actions, essentially becoming used to the risk after a while as they learn from repeated actions that they don't get caught (until they do). So, the question is why repeat interactions have gone down. I guess larger communities, and better transport means just in terms of regular day-to-day you don't have many repeat interactions, and this changes mindsets of people inclined to crime in terms of what they think they can get away with, at least to start with. It also explains to some extent the distrust small communities have to strangers, where they are not used to living with that regular stranger-danger that people in cities constantly deal with.

vkou 7y ago

Obviously, the reduction in atmospheric CFCs since the signing of the Montreal Accord is the culprit.