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>How do atomic energy organizations succeed in doing this? From my knowledge: they mostly don't. For example, in France, we have the Autorité de sûreté nucléai

>How do atomic energy organizations succeed in doing this? From my knowledge: they mostly don't. For example, in France, we have the Autorité de sûreté nucléaire (Nuclear Safety Authority, ASN) which is supposed to be an independent and transparent authority on nuclear safety and information. However: it has been criticized many times since its inception in 2006 regarding conflicts of interest[1][2], and lacks in terms of safety issues reporting[3]. I'm glad my country invested so much into nuclear energies, I still believe it's our best chance at tackling the upcoming crisis, but we should not let nuclear in the hands of private interests. Governments _have_ to apply a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to safety, regulation, and transparency, regardless of how expensive and inconvenient it is. We're not doing enough, in France[4], when it comes to safety, from within or without. On top of that: it's giving fuel to anti-nuclear militantism. [1] http://www.observatoire-du-nucleaire.org/spip.php?article281 http://www.observatoire-du-nucleaire.org/spip.php?article281 [2] https://www.cairn.info/revue-revue-juridique-de-l-environnement-2013-1-page-7.htm# https://www.cairn.info/revue-revue-juridique-de-l-environnem... [3] http://mai68.org/spip2/spip.php?article1347 http://mai68.org/spip2/spip.php?article1347 [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STjGOGkMz4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STjGOGkMz4k

aianus 7y ago
> Governments _have_ to apply a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to safety, regulation, and transparency, regardless of how expensive and inconvenient it is. Only in combination with some kind of carbon tax, otherwise you make nuclear too expensive compared to coal or natural gas whose costs are externalized and harder to quantify than nuclear regulatory compliance.
odiroot 7y ago
How come France is so reasonable and pragmatic with this where most other western EU (especially Germany) are going the Luddite way?
- Zealotux 7y ago
  The anti-nuclear sentiment is pretty strong in France as well[1], but if we compare to Germany for example: - in 2016, 72% of the energy generation in France was nuclear, Germany never came close to that percentage[2], therefore making it easier to transition away from it. - France invested a lot into nuclear energy and no government since then would dare to throw such a huge industry (2500 companies, 222 000 jobs) into the trash. I don't think it was the case with other European countries. There's a lot of pride surrounding our history of nuclear research (since Pierre and Marie Curie), and politicians are often accused by militants of falling for the sunken-cost fallacy or to have a misplaced pride into the industry ("En France on n'a pas de pétrole mais on a des idées" - "In France, we don't have oil, but we sure have ideas"). Ultimately: the percentage of nuclear-based energy in France should go down to 50% by 2025, I just hope we'll manage to reduce our carbon monoxide emissions as well, Germany gave up on nuclear and they're failing at that so far. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-nuclear_movement_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-nuclear_movement_in_Franc... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany#/media/File:Electricity_production_in_Germany.PNG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany#/medi...
  - pgeorgi 7y ago
    > France invested a lot into nuclear energy and no government since then would dare to throw such a huge industry (2500 companies, 222 000 jobs) into the trash. I don't think it was the case with other European countries. Germany all but killed off an industry of 80000 jobs (at the time) in the blink of an eye: photovoltaics. One other main difference is that having your own nuclear industry is also important for countries aiming for (or having) nuclear deterrence power, like France (and unlike Germany which merely hosts US nukes).
    - Faark 7y ago
      Could you elaborate on how Germany did kill of the photovoltaics industry? Since this seems different than I remember. Solar panel production in Germany mostly died because it couldn't be price competitive with those from China. Installations went down due to reduced subsidies, apparently as an reaction to more than expected solar being installed [0]. I have a hard time calling that "killing of an industry". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Renewable_Energy_Sources_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Renewable_Energy_Source...
- pjc50 7y ago
  Dirigisme. It's long been a more centrally planned country with a greater propensity for big state technology projects. The Green movement does not seem strong in France, but I'm not sure why.
  - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
    > The Green movement does not seem strong in France, but I'm not sure why. I have a theory. The French people like the American people put a great deal of value on liberty. Most of the purposed changes made by green activists involve ratcheting up state control the citizen's daily life and as a result are unpopular.
    - einpoklum 7y ago
      So, "people" build nuclear reactors in their "daily life"? Sorry for impinging in your "personal liberty" to place me at risk of a nuclear holocaust. Must be my authoritarian statist tendencies.
      - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement For more background
        einpoklum 7y ago
        How does this relate to nuclear reactors? I do realize how Macro used environmental concerns as an excuse to burden poorer people in peripheral areas with more taxes (rather than, say, taxing the rich and helping to finance hybrid or lower-emission, fuel-efficient vehicles for people in the countryside).
        fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
        The reason they are wearing the yellow vests are because some government official who knows better than the population decided that everyone must carry two of them in their cars at all times. Similarly they also decided to raise fuel taxes (cars are required for rural life) and subsidize public transport (used in urban areas). The French are also pragmatic and have seen the failure of the German green energy model, why on earth would they want to do that?
- pgeorgi 7y ago
  Unlike Germans, the French (thanks to their increased distance) don't have to check their wild mushrooms or boar for radioactive residues to this day due to Chernobyl: https://www.bfs.de/DE/themen/ion/umwelt/lebensmittel/pilze-wildbret/pilze-wildbret.html https://www.bfs.de/DE/themen/ion/umwelt/lebensmittel/pilze-w...

aianus 7y ago

> Governments _have_ to apply a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to safety, regulation, and transparency, regardless of how expensive and inconvenient it is. Only in combination with some kind of carbon tax, otherwise you make nuclear too expensive compared to coal or natural gas whose costs are externalized and harder to quantify than nuclear regulatory compliance.

odiroot 7y ago

How come France is so reasonable and pragmatic with this where most other western EU (especially Germany) are going the Luddite way?

Zealotux 7y ago
The anti-nuclear sentiment is pretty strong in France as well[1], but if we compare to Germany for example: - in 2016, 72% of the energy generation in France was nuclear, Germany never came close to that percentage[2], therefore making it easier to transition away from it. - France invested a lot into nuclear energy and no government since then would dare to throw such a huge industry (2500 companies, 222 000 jobs) into the trash. I don't think it was the case with other European countries. There's a lot of pride surrounding our history of nuclear research (since Pierre and Marie Curie), and politicians are often accused by militants of falling for the sunken-cost fallacy or to have a misplaced pride into the industry ("En France on n'a pas de pétrole mais on a des idées" - "In France, we don't have oil, but we sure have ideas"). Ultimately: the percentage of nuclear-based energy in France should go down to 50% by 2025, I just hope we'll manage to reduce our carbon monoxide emissions as well, Germany gave up on nuclear and they're failing at that so far. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-nuclear_movement_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-nuclear_movement_in_Franc... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany#/media/File:Electricity_production_in_Germany.PNG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany#/medi...
- pgeorgi 7y ago
  > France invested a lot into nuclear energy and no government since then would dare to throw such a huge industry (2500 companies, 222 000 jobs) into the trash. I don't think it was the case with other European countries. Germany all but killed off an industry of 80000 jobs (at the time) in the blink of an eye: photovoltaics. One other main difference is that having your own nuclear industry is also important for countries aiming for (or having) nuclear deterrence power, like France (and unlike Germany which merely hosts US nukes).
  - Faark 7y ago
    Could you elaborate on how Germany did kill of the photovoltaics industry? Since this seems different than I remember. Solar panel production in Germany mostly died because it couldn't be price competitive with those from China. Installations went down due to reduced subsidies, apparently as an reaction to more than expected solar being installed [0]. I have a hard time calling that "killing of an industry". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Renewable_Energy_Sources_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Renewable_Energy_Source...
pjc50 7y ago
Dirigisme. It's long been a more centrally planned country with a greater propensity for big state technology projects. The Green movement does not seem strong in France, but I'm not sure why.
- fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
  > The Green movement does not seem strong in France, but I'm not sure why. I have a theory. The French people like the American people put a great deal of value on liberty. Most of the purposed changes made by green activists involve ratcheting up state control the citizen's daily life and as a result are unpopular.
  - einpoklum 7y ago
    So, "people" build nuclear reactors in their "daily life"? Sorry for impinging in your "personal liberty" to place me at risk of a nuclear holocaust. Must be my authoritarian statist tendencies.
    - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement For more background
      - einpoklum 7y ago
        How does this relate to nuclear reactors? I do realize how Macro used environmental concerns as an excuse to burden poorer people in peripheral areas with more taxes (rather than, say, taxing the rich and helping to finance hybrid or lower-emission, fuel-efficient vehicles for people in the countryside).
        fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
        The reason they are wearing the yellow vests are because some government official who knows better than the population decided that everyone must carry two of them in their cars at all times. Similarly they also decided to raise fuel taxes (cars are required for rural life) and subsidize public transport (used in urban areas). The French are also pragmatic and have seen the failure of the German green energy model, why on earth would they want to do that?
pgeorgi 7y ago
Unlike Germans, the French (thanks to their increased distance) don't have to check their wild mushrooms or boar for radioactive residues to this day due to Chernobyl: https://www.bfs.de/DE/themen/ion/umwelt/lebensmittel/pilze-wildbret/pilze-wildbret.html https://www.bfs.de/DE/themen/ion/umwelt/lebensmittel/pilze-w...