5 ms·

Can second. I grew up in a Protestant Church like this, and it's a great community. Nice and welcoming people are sometimes rare these days. I can't help but

by mises 7y ago

Can second. I grew up in a Protestant Church like this, and it's a great community. Nice and welcoming people are sometimes rare these days. I can't help but think that it's just not "cool" to be religious. It's seen as things our parents did, and every one wants to be an edgy atheist. For better or for worse, humans drew community from their churches (or other religious institutions) for a very long time. Churches were uniquely well-suited to "scale" with modern life and urbanization, especially compared to other traditional communities. I'm not saying you have to be any specific religion; I'm guessing many other religions are welcoming as well. But pick something where you can find a community of friendly people who share your values (this is possibly most important). Edit: I see that the parent comment has now felt compelled to apologize for suggesting that religion could be a good thing. That's pretty sad. Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean it can't be a helpful thing for others. Quite frankly, I also believe it's helpful for mental health. Believing that when you die you will just disappear is a rather depressing worldview, and I know people with serious health issues who are atheists and are struggling with that. Same with many aging people. On the other hand, being able to "offer something up to God" can be quite cathartic and an excellent way to relive stress. Priests were the therapists of olden days. Edit 2: For further clarification, here's my response to those who say "just gather like-minded people". It's much harder to do that without religion. The best definition of religion I ever heard was "an ideology that provides a comprehensive worldview". In other words, something that shapes your perspective on and understanding of every thing else. It is not easy to find such a group of people who share such basic understandings and values without the use of religion.

cheerlessbog 7y ago
Religion combines two things and some people only want one: opportunity to socialize and build friendships with people who share values; and a belief in supernatural actors.
- pessimizer 7y ago
  I think the problem with this is that one of those values has to be to consistently attend the meeting. Supernaturalism offers this. Video games rely on consistently being entertained by video games; once it's not fun, you can just leave.
slothtrop 7y ago
Well for one, not every religion purports an afterlife. Where I quibble though is for two notions. 1: I think the perspective of those either denying or being apathetic about the possibility of an afterlife is in fact life-affirming. Hume is like this for instance. One has to seize it while it lasts; this is not contingent on there being an afterlife. Whether you think there's an afterlife or not, life ends. The stoics and Buddhists and the like opt to navigate with an emphasis on self-mastery and acceptance of that which is out of control. If we're comparing anecdotes, I don't recognize them to be a depressive bunch. And 2: I expect the comfort of religion is far less so about an afterlife than the gamification of life, winning spirit "points", borrowing pre-cut meaning espoused from dogma to relieve the depression of a toiling, dull life. But it needn't be so. I think meaning is a personal responsibility, and not everyone has the wherewithal to decide it for themselves. That's a task. There's nothing inherently depressing about not knowing what happens when we die - it's misdirection, depression is about life itself. I am a happy atheist.
simion314 7y ago
>Believing that when you die you will just disappear is a rather depressing worldview, and I know people with serious health issues who are atheists and are struggling with that. True, the issue is I can't just decide to believe that magic exists and tomorrow I will believe it as a fact without any doubts, IMO it would be great if I could believe, I would know that justice exists and if I do good then I will b rewarded, but wishing to believe is not enough for some people that for some reason think more critically. I am not against religion and I would never attempt to "convert" someone to atheism, if someone is happy with his religion and it is not pushing it on me then I am happy for them.
- fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
  The more I look at it most of what is called science is just as magical when you move outside of the directly observable. Take the big bang, people proclaim that it answers the question of where the universe comes from but it does no better of a job than religion. Both start from a place of preexistence, either god or the energy required to create the universe exist prior to the start of the explanation. Neither actually answer the question. It is supreme arrogance to assume we have it right and all the ones before us had it wrong. Truth is we have no idea about much of anything, especially the universe or ourselves and it's all essentially blind faith. Scientific consensus is just the new papal decree.
  - simion314 7y ago
    Let me tell you my main point, and it is not related with science or who created the universe. Most religions(I am a ortodox christian in Romania) tell that God is good and fair, I look around me and I do not see a fair and good world, so using my own intelect I decide that there are 2 possibilities: 1 a fair and kind god does not exist ( a healthy in the mind human won't let children die) 2 god exists but and his actions or inactions are not on my liking, I can't respect and worship such a god. Now some religios people will appear and tell stories about how we can't understand why god does X but it never convinces me. Again is not about science, I can ignore the creationists stories as just stories, the full God is kind and fair is what makes me convinced that there is nothing like this in this world.

by mises 7y ago

cheerlessbog 7y ago

Religion combines two things and some people only want one: opportunity to socialize and build friendships with people who share values; and a belief in supernatural actors.

pessimizer 7y ago
I think the problem with this is that one of those values has to be to consistently attend the meeting. Supernaturalism offers this. Video games rely on consistently being entertained by video games; once it's not fun, you can just leave.

slothtrop 7y ago

Well for one, not every religion purports an afterlife. Where I quibble though is for two notions. 1: I think the perspective of those either denying or being apathetic about the possibility of an afterlife is in fact life-affirming. Hume is like this for instance. One has to seize it while it lasts; this is not contingent on there being an afterlife. Whether you think there's an afterlife or not, life ends. The stoics and Buddhists and the like opt to navigate with an emphasis on self-mastery and acceptance of that which is out of control. If we're comparing anecdotes, I don't recognize them to be a depressive bunch. And 2: I expect the comfort of religion is far less so about an afterlife than the gamification of life, winning spirit "points", borrowing pre-cut meaning espoused from dogma to relieve the depression of a toiling, dull life. But it needn't be so. I think meaning is a personal responsibility, and not everyone has the wherewithal to decide it for themselves. That's a task. There's nothing inherently depressing about not knowing what happens when we die - it's misdirection, depression is about life itself. I am a happy atheist.

simion314 7y ago

>Believing that when you die you will just disappear is a rather depressing worldview, and I know people with serious health issues who are atheists and are struggling with that. True, the issue is I can't just decide to believe that magic exists and tomorrow I will believe it as a fact without any doubts, IMO it would be great if I could believe, I would know that justice exists and if I do good then I will b rewarded, but wishing to believe is not enough for some people that for some reason think more critically. I am not against religion and I would never attempt to "convert" someone to atheism, if someone is happy with his religion and it is not pushing it on me then I am happy for them.

fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
The more I look at it most of what is called science is just as magical when you move outside of the directly observable. Take the big bang, people proclaim that it answers the question of where the universe comes from but it does no better of a job than religion. Both start from a place of preexistence, either god or the energy required to create the universe exist prior to the start of the explanation. Neither actually answer the question. It is supreme arrogance to assume we have it right and all the ones before us had it wrong. Truth is we have no idea about much of anything, especially the universe or ourselves and it's all essentially blind faith. Scientific consensus is just the new papal decree.
- simion314 7y ago
  Let me tell you my main point, and it is not related with science or who created the universe. Most religions(I am a ortodox christian in Romania) tell that God is good and fair, I look around me and I do not see a fair and good world, so using my own intelect I decide that there are 2 possibilities: 1 a fair and kind god does not exist ( a healthy in the mind human won't let children die) 2 god exists but and his actions or inactions are not on my liking, I can't respect and worship such a god. Now some religios people will appear and tell stories about how we can't understand why god does X but it never convinces me. Again is not about science, I can ignore the creationists stories as just stories, the full God is kind and fair is what makes me convinced that there is nothing like this in this world.