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So many business people I know have their own Yelp horror story. How is this company even still in business?

by kull 7y ago

smt88 7y ago
Yelp's practice of intentionally biasing their reviews (and search results) was protected in court a few years ago[1], so unfortunately businesses have no legal recourse. If we want to kill Yelp, we have to switch. My cousin works for Likewise[2] and recommends it. It solves the fake/biased reviews problem by letting you as a user select who influences your recommendations (including friends and family). I've never tried it, so I can't vouch for it myself. 1. https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Yelp-can-give-paying-clients-better-ratings-5731200.php https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Yelp-can-give-paying-cli... 2. https://likewise.com/what-is-likewise https://likewise.com/what-is-likewise
- timwis 7y ago
  Darn, it's not available in the UK :(
  - boudin 7y ago
    In term of restaurants, at least in London, quite a few are tested by michelin and can be seen on viamichelin website. It's not the same but at least it focuses only on positive reviews and there's no room for fake ones.
    - twic 7y ago
      In London, i used to rely on Harden's guide, because it uses reviews from diners, but a diner had to fill in an actual paper form to review a place, and the reviews were filtered and curated by editors who knew their stuff, and visited as many of the restaurants as possible themselves (what terribly hard work that must have been). Then the internet came along, and it was so much easier to google than to look in a little book. They have a website, but it never seems to work properly (completely broken in Firefox right now). The data is presumably still good, though.
- code_duck 7y ago
  There's plenty of review action on Google Maps. My impression is that it's surpassed Yelp already, at least in the markets I'm active in (Denver). Oddly I see lots of hipster businesses with signs mocking yelp, but none of them seem to register that GM is similar.
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    That's not my impression. I seem to see very few reviews on Google maps compared to Yelp or even trip advisor. And when I do, they tend to be mostly negative. Presumably because the only ones leaving reviews are those that are mad enough to go out of their way to post there.
    - code_duck 7y ago
      My experience is that the “match” feature on Google Maps does a very good job of suggesting places that appeal to me.
  - pmoriarty 7y ago
    The last thing I'd want to do is give Google even more dominance.
    - code_duck 7y ago
      It’s not really up to me. In reality, the only restaurant review app that is useful for me is ‘find me gluten free’, which is based on yelp.
  - ilikehurdles 7y ago
    Google maps reviews are of way lower quality compared to both Yelp and TripAdvisor. Lots of 3-word reviews or barely English reviews. I’m sure there are more of them but I don’t value them at all. I think there’s a weird culture around yelp reviews especially of people who openly label themselves as yelpers. I haven’t met them but it’s an easy group to mock. I’d bet a lot of those restaurants don’t realize how many visitors end up at their business because they saw something they liked about it on yelp despite not being some kind of power users of the site. Frankly I like the platform more for discovery than reviewing, but generally most restaurants at 4 stars or above are pretty consistently good, while those between 1 and 3 are pretty consistently trash. It’s also nice being able to search reviews for menu items and things like “happy hour” or “patio”. Lately I use Eater a lot more than any user-driven service though.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  The first article you linked does not conclude what you’re implying: that they’re intentionally biasing ratings (for paying customers or otherwise).
  - smt88 7y ago
    I didn't say that it did, only that it's completely legal for them to do it and for them to do it secretly. I have firsthand experience with them biasing ratings from helping friends manage Yelp listings. I don't know how widespread it is, but it does happen. While possible, it seems unlikely that thousands of people have reported the same pattern (good reviews buried after declining to become a Yelp customer). You can see this yourself on many listings. Click on the reviews that Yelp has hidden because of "quality issues". That's what they use for plausible deniability. My own positive reviews have been hidden from businesses (no personal connection to them, just places I liked) for being "suspicious".
    - ilikehurdles 7y ago
      A lot of those folks that are hidden have 0 connections or linked accounts, few reviews, and/or all reviews being the same star rating. I’m not saying it’s a good system but I see a variety of ratings hidden in that section. All of my wife’s reviews were being hidden until she added established accounts as friends on yelp. Not sure why anyone treats it as a social network but so it goes.
CamelCaseName 7y ago
1. Incredibly aggressive salespeople 2. A constant stream of new small business owners 3. A good story (pay us and we'll make you more money)
matz1 7y ago
Because many people use yelp (including me).

So many business people I know have their own Yelp horror story. How is this company even still in business?

by kull 7y ago

So many business people I know have their own Yelp horror story. How is this company even still in business?

Yelp's practice of intentionally biasing their reviews (and search results) was protected in court a few years ago[1], so unfortunately businesses have no legal recourse. If we want to kill Yelp, we have to switch. My cousin works for Likewise[2] and recommends it. It solves the fake/biased reviews problem by letting you as a user select who influences your recommendations (including friends and family). I've never tried it, so I can't vouch for it myself. 1. https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Yelp-can-give-paying-clients-better-ratings-5731200.php https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Yelp-can-give-paying-cli... 2. https://likewise.com/what-is-likewise https://likewise.com/what-is-likewise

timwis 7y ago
Darn, it's not available in the UK :(
- boudin 7y ago
  In term of restaurants, at least in London, quite a few are tested by michelin and can be seen on viamichelin website. It's not the same but at least it focuses only on positive reviews and there's no room for fake ones.
  - twic 7y ago
    In London, i used to rely on Harden's guide, because it uses reviews from diners, but a diner had to fill in an actual paper form to review a place, and the reviews were filtered and curated by editors who knew their stuff, and visited as many of the restaurants as possible themselves (what terribly hard work that must have been). Then the internet came along, and it was so much easier to google than to look in a little book. They have a website, but it never seems to work properly (completely broken in Firefox right now). The data is presumably still good, though.
code_duck 7y ago
There's plenty of review action on Google Maps. My impression is that it's surpassed Yelp already, at least in the markets I'm active in (Denver). Oddly I see lots of hipster businesses with signs mocking yelp, but none of them seem to register that GM is similar.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  That's not my impression. I seem to see very few reviews on Google maps compared to Yelp or even trip advisor. And when I do, they tend to be mostly negative. Presumably because the only ones leaving reviews are those that are mad enough to go out of their way to post there.
  - code_duck 7y ago
    My experience is that the “match” feature on Google Maps does a very good job of suggesting places that appeal to me.
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  The last thing I'd want to do is give Google even more dominance.
  - code_duck 7y ago
    It’s not really up to me. In reality, the only restaurant review app that is useful for me is ‘find me gluten free’, which is based on yelp.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  Google maps reviews are of way lower quality compared to both Yelp and TripAdvisor. Lots of 3-word reviews or barely English reviews. I’m sure there are more of them but I don’t value them at all. I think there’s a weird culture around yelp reviews especially of people who openly label themselves as yelpers. I haven’t met them but it’s an easy group to mock. I’d bet a lot of those restaurants don’t realize how many visitors end up at their business because they saw something they liked about it on yelp despite not being some kind of power users of the site. Frankly I like the platform more for discovery than reviewing, but generally most restaurants at 4 stars or above are pretty consistently good, while those between 1 and 3 are pretty consistently trash. It’s also nice being able to search reviews for menu items and things like “happy hour” or “patio”. Lately I use Eater a lot more than any user-driven service though.
ilikehurdles 7y ago
The first article you linked does not conclude what you’re implying: that they’re intentionally biasing ratings (for paying customers or otherwise).
- smt88 7y ago
  I didn't say that it did, only that it's completely legal for them to do it and for them to do it secretly. I have firsthand experience with them biasing ratings from helping friends manage Yelp listings. I don't know how widespread it is, but it does happen. While possible, it seems unlikely that thousands of people have reported the same pattern (good reviews buried after declining to become a Yelp customer). You can see this yourself on many listings. Click on the reviews that Yelp has hidden because of "quality issues". That's what they use for plausible deniability. My own positive reviews have been hidden from businesses (no personal connection to them, just places I liked) for being "suspicious".
  - ilikehurdles 7y ago
    A lot of those folks that are hidden have 0 connections or linked accounts, few reviews, and/or all reviews being the same star rating. I’m not saying it’s a good system but I see a variety of ratings hidden in that section. All of my wife’s reviews were being hidden until she added established accounts as friends on yelp. Not sure why anyone treats it as a social network but so it goes.

CamelCaseName 7y ago

1. Incredibly aggressive salespeople 2. A constant stream of new small business owners 3. A good story (pay us and we'll make you more money)

matz1 7y ago

Because many people use yelp (including me).