5 ms·

> Eye-contact in video chats. That's the biggest difference between video chat and face-to-face conversations This issue is pretty far down the list IMHO. Abov

by avian 7y ago

> Eye-contact in video chats. That's the biggest difference between video chat and face-to-face conversations This issue is pretty far down the list IMHO. Above it are fixing the obligatory 5 minutes of "Can you hear me? I can't hear you" before the actual conversation starts. Face-to-face conversations also lack "Please mute your mic when you're not talking because the background noise is annoying". "Did you forget you're muted?". "Can you repeat that, I can't understand you". "The video/sound is cutting out". "Where's this echo coming from?". "Please say something on your end". "What's that noise?". "Please use a headset next time". "Sorry, the call dropped out". "Let me call you again, maybe this will fix the issue". etc. etc. Video chat is one of the great unsolved problems of computing. Yes, camera location is there as well - especially on Dell laptops that for some reason have it looking up from below into your chin. But that is really one of the lesser issues as far as my experience goes.

joshspankit 7y ago
Sounds like you’re limiting your view to work-related calls. If I could have real eye contact on personal calls, it would make a huge difference. My current technique of looking just below the camera already makes a huge difference, and it’s only a hack to make it seem like eye contact for the other person.
- Zenbit_UX 7y ago
  You would have to look directly into the camera, no? Why just below?
  - tazard 7y ago
    I would guess because if you always looked directly into the camera, it would be harder to watch the video/see the other person at the same time.
    - Zenst 7y ago
      It is natural to look at the person and eye contact when talking to them. Hence we don't look at the camera, though I'm sure some people can and do this.
- thoughtfunction 7y ago
  I do half of that crap on personal calls too. Interestingly enough, I don't get those issues on phone calls! Or most audio only calls over the internet. The underlying issue is the technical failures of video calling, not the social environment it's used in.
- kungito 7y ago
  On laptop I would reduce the video window to 10% of screen and put it just under the camera and it made a huge difference
- chillacy 7y ago
  I've had decent luck tilting the laptop screen down a bit so that it reduces the distance between the camera and the window
gumby 7y ago
> Above it are fixing the obligatory 5 minutes of "Can you hear me? I can't hear you" before the actual conversation starts. Whenever I’m in this mode (which basically means whenever I’m on a conference call) I wonder what percentage of the GDP this represents, in aggregate.
- alanbernstein 7y ago
  Supposedly, way way less than the portion of the GDP that is made possible by remote work.
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petra 7y ago
Those problems are solvable, the solutions are here. And there are even more problems with consumer telepresence: http://hellarddesign.blogspot.com/2013/07/why-living-room-video-conferencing-will.html http://hellarddesign.blogspot.com/2013/07/why-living-room-vi... But i feel that they too are solvable, if you care enough(like when you want to keep in touch with you senior parents).
- avian 7y ago
  Senior parents might not be as forthcoming as a project lead about the fact that the call quality sucks and that they can't hear half the things you say. Just a thought. I spent the past 5+ years in jobs where I had to have multiple video calls per week. I used every tech imaginable, from those that cost five figures to the gratis ones. If these problems are solved, why is the experience universally terrible on all of them? When I call my parents, it's over the plain old phone line, because I actually want to talk to them. Not seeing their faces on the screen is a small price to pay for not having each and every call turn into an impromptu debugging session.
  - petra 7y ago
    What about a microphone array ? Have you tried putting that both on your and your parents' locations ? And what kind of internet you two are using ? and are the devices using wifi , or are wired ?
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    I have the opposite problem. Call quality over cellular networks is always terrible. Even when you can hear each other, the quality is awful. I generally use voice over internet with something like signal.
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    I have the opposite problem. Call quality over cellular networks is always terrible. Even when you can hear each other, the quality is awful. I generally use voice over internet with something like signal. I also find that Apple's FaceTime is the most consistently good and functional with little "can you hear me now".
piotrkubisa 7y ago
> "Can you hear me? I can't hear you" Would you mind explain me why there isn't anything (or only little) done in that area? I guess we could implement some assistive checks for input and output audio streams? What is blocking us to implement a "handshake" that will verify that all is fine? - let's say communicators will send a recorded sample "Hello World" message over wire and check the microphone, volume, noise etc. In my opinion the pattern how we resolve the "I can't hear you" problem is a repeatable checklist that we more or less confidently do, so why we can't implement it as some algorithm that takes care of those problems in automatic way?
- notatoad 7y ago
  because your microphone can't hear what's happening in your headphones, and your computer doesn't know if you're using headphones.
  - brachi 7y ago
    A system that has access to both the microphone and the headphones could coordinate both based on past experiences (e.g., learning). I don't know how much data you would need to make it reliable though. If you know how the data is going to be transmitted, and assume little network delays, recording yourself before a video session might be of great help. Probably the same problem that TV broadcasters have. It's hard work to get quality real time content.
lallysingh 7y ago
Sounds like you've only used shit systems on shit networks.

by avian 7y ago

joshspankit 7y ago

Sounds like you’re limiting your view to work-related calls. If I could have real eye contact on personal calls, it would make a huge difference. My current technique of looking just below the camera already makes a huge difference, and it’s only a hack to make it seem like eye contact for the other person.

Zenbit_UX 7y ago
You would have to look directly into the camera, no? Why just below?
- tazard 7y ago
  I would guess because if you always looked directly into the camera, it would be harder to watch the video/see the other person at the same time.
  - Zenst 7y ago
    It is natural to look at the person and eye contact when talking to them. Hence we don't look at the camera, though I'm sure some people can and do this.
thoughtfunction 7y ago
I do half of that crap on personal calls too. Interestingly enough, I don't get those issues on phone calls! Or most audio only calls over the internet. The underlying issue is the technical failures of video calling, not the social environment it's used in.
kungito 7y ago
On laptop I would reduce the video window to 10% of screen and put it just under the camera and it made a huge difference
chillacy 7y ago
I've had decent luck tilting the laptop screen down a bit so that it reduces the distance between the camera and the window

gumby 7y ago

> Above it are fixing the obligatory 5 minutes of "Can you hear me? I can't hear you" before the actual conversation starts. Whenever I’m in this mode (which basically means whenever I’m on a conference call) I wonder what percentage of the GDP this represents, in aggregate.

alanbernstein 7y ago
Supposedly, way way less than the portion of the GDP that is made possible by remote work.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

petra 7y ago

Those problems are solvable, the solutions are here. And there are even more problems with consumer telepresence: http://hellarddesign.blogspot.com/2013/07/why-living-room-video-conferencing-will.html http://hellarddesign.blogspot.com/2013/07/why-living-room-vi... But i feel that they too are solvable, if you care enough(like when you want to keep in touch with you senior parents).

avian 7y ago
Senior parents might not be as forthcoming as a project lead about the fact that the call quality sucks and that they can't hear half the things you say. Just a thought. I spent the past 5+ years in jobs where I had to have multiple video calls per week. I used every tech imaginable, from those that cost five figures to the gratis ones. If these problems are solved, why is the experience universally terrible on all of them? When I call my parents, it's over the plain old phone line, because I actually want to talk to them. Not seeing their faces on the screen is a small price to pay for not having each and every call turn into an impromptu debugging session.
- petra 7y ago
  What about a microphone array ? Have you tried putting that both on your and your parents' locations ? And what kind of internet you two are using ? and are the devices using wifi , or are wired ?
- jjeaff 7y ago
  I have the opposite problem. Call quality over cellular networks is always terrible. Even when you can hear each other, the quality is awful. I generally use voice over internet with something like signal.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  I have the opposite problem. Call quality over cellular networks is always terrible. Even when you can hear each other, the quality is awful. I generally use voice over internet with something like signal. I also find that Apple's FaceTime is the most consistently good and functional with little "can you hear me now".

piotrkubisa 7y ago

> "Can you hear me? I can't hear you" Would you mind explain me why there isn't anything (or only little) done in that area? I guess we could implement some assistive checks for input and output audio streams? What is blocking us to implement a "handshake" that will verify that all is fine? - let's say communicators will send a recorded sample "Hello World" message over wire and check the microphone, volume, noise etc. In my opinion the pattern how we resolve the "I can't hear you" problem is a repeatable checklist that we more or less confidently do, so why we can't implement it as some algorithm that takes care of those problems in automatic way?

notatoad 7y ago
because your microphone can't hear what's happening in your headphones, and your computer doesn't know if you're using headphones.
- brachi 7y ago
  A system that has access to both the microphone and the headphones could coordinate both based on past experiences (e.g., learning). I don't know how much data you would need to make it reliable though. If you know how the data is going to be transmitted, and assume little network delays, recording yourself before a video session might be of great help. Probably the same problem that TV broadcasters have. It's hard work to get quality real time content.

lallysingh 7y ago

Sounds like you've only used shit systems on shit networks.