3 ms·

Can a cipher invented 2000 years ago have a technical standard ascribed to it?

by A2017U1 7y ago

ChrisSD 7y ago
Caesar ciphers? I believe they are well defined, yes. Although ROT13 itself only dates back to maybe the 70's or 80's. Besides, I was honestly just using this as an excuse to make a more general point. I've grown frustrated with bugs and security issues arising from "fixing" input to work in a domain which was not designed to handle that input. But as I said, it doesn't really matter with ROT13 because it isn't a serious algorithm.
- astrobe_ 7y ago
  > But as I said, it doesn't really matter with ROT13 because it isn't a serious algorithm. Depends on what you use it for. I've seen it used for "spoilers" text when other tricks were not available. BTW it is funny that Caesar's cypher cannot handle "Latin" characters.
  - bumfodder 7y ago
    IMO it doesn’t matter whether an algorithm is “serious” or not, it depends solely on how people treat it. In this story, ROT13 is taken seriously, so it is a serious algorithm. And the creation of such a good version does have it’s value, no matter how useful ROT13 is.
  - menacingly 7y ago
    Rot13 is not Caesar's cipher. Rot13 is in the family of rotational ciphers, but it's a more modern concept designed around a 26-letter alphabet (so that running it twice produces the plaintext again)
  - ChrisSD 7y ago
    Sure it has its uses for simple obfuscation but in that case my central point is relevant. It's only good for obfuscating ASCII letters. Btw what's commonly known as Caesar cipher (aka shift cipher) is a generalisation of Caesar's original cypher (described as shifting each character 3 places). ROT13 is different from the "original" as it shifts by 13 characters over a 26 character alphabet. This makes the encode and decode steps the same. You can play with different alphabets and shifts here: https://crypto.interactive-maths.com/caesar-shift-cipher.html https://crypto.interactive-maths.com/caesar-shift-cipher.htm...
  - bjoli 7y ago
    As an aside: After 20 years of IRC usage I read and write rot13 without any technical aids (mostly due to the first 2 years of quakenet). I wouldn't be surprised if you'd find someone who can speak it :)
throwawaymath 7y ago
If it's sufficiently well-specified, sure, why not?

Can a cipher invented 2000 years ago have a technical standard ascribed to it?

Caesar ciphers? I believe they are well defined, yes. Although ROT13 itself only dates back to maybe the 70's or 80's. Besides, I was honestly just using this as an excuse to make a more general point. I've grown frustrated with bugs and security issues arising from "fixing" input to work in a domain which was not designed to handle that input. But as I said, it doesn't really matter with ROT13 because it isn't a serious algorithm.

astrobe_ 7y ago
> But as I said, it doesn't really matter with ROT13 because it isn't a serious algorithm. Depends on what you use it for. I've seen it used for "spoilers" text when other tricks were not available. BTW it is funny that Caesar's cypher cannot handle "Latin" characters.
- bumfodder 7y ago
  IMO it doesn’t matter whether an algorithm is “serious” or not, it depends solely on how people treat it. In this story, ROT13 is taken seriously, so it is a serious algorithm. And the creation of such a good version does have it’s value, no matter how useful ROT13 is.
- menacingly 7y ago
  Rot13 is not Caesar's cipher. Rot13 is in the family of rotational ciphers, but it's a more modern concept designed around a 26-letter alphabet (so that running it twice produces the plaintext again)
- ChrisSD 7y ago
  Sure it has its uses for simple obfuscation but in that case my central point is relevant. It's only good for obfuscating ASCII letters. Btw what's commonly known as Caesar cipher (aka shift cipher) is a generalisation of Caesar's original cypher (described as shifting each character 3 places). ROT13 is different from the "original" as it shifts by 13 characters over a 26 character alphabet. This makes the encode and decode steps the same. You can play with different alphabets and shifts here: https://crypto.interactive-maths.com/caesar-shift-cipher.html https://crypto.interactive-maths.com/caesar-shift-cipher.htm...
- bjoli 7y ago
  As an aside: After 20 years of IRC usage I read and write rot13 without any technical aids (mostly due to the first 2 years of quakenet). I wouldn't be surprised if you'd find someone who can speak it :)

throwawaymath 7y ago

If it's sufficiently well-specified, sure, why not?