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They can also modify it to add features. I have a Model S I bought before auto pilot was released. I had prepaid for it though so when it was ready I got it.

by Urgo 7y ago

They can also modify it to add features. I have a Model S I bought before auto pilot was released. I had prepaid for it though so when it was ready I got it. And over the years other features that weren't even announced I also got for free. It goes both ways. So is it troubling they can modify the car to add functionality? I get it if they are modifying it to remove something you paid for, but that is NOT the case here.

FireBeyond 7y ago
Why is Tesla artificially limiting range to begin with? "Sorry, but you only paid for 15mpg from your BMW".
- TomVDB 7y ago
  Is that so much different than the common practice of “sorry, but you only paid for 150 HP” ?
patrick5415 7y ago
Whether the updates are beneficial or enervating, the ability to modify what should be my car is precisely the reason I will never own a Tesla.
- Urgo 7y ago
  Your loss. Have had a Model S for almost 4 years and it is absolutely amazing. Also I probably should point out that when the updates come out it is still up to the user, at least to some extent on whether they want to upgrade or not. I think it turns into a snooze game though but I know there were people that held out for years on software updates because they liked the old UX better. So you don't HAVE to update, its just pretty much universally preferred to upgrade.
- sliken 7y ago
  Why not just say no to updates... if that's what you want?
userbinator 7y ago
So is it troubling they can modify the car to add functionality? Absolutely yes. The problem is they are accessing and modifying something that they do not legally own (IANAL --- but the terminology they use when referring to paying and then being able to use a vehicle they made sounds very much not a rental or a lease), regardless of what that modification is. To stretch the analogy, I would be just as pissed if GM decided to send someone to my house and replace the tires on my car with new ones, and I couldn't do anything to stop them. Furthermore, the whole VW emissions thing shows what real ownership means --- they came up with an update to reduce emissions (and likely power or fuel economy...), and probably very strongly encouraged owners to get it, but ultimately if someone bought the car then they can't just go and "fix" it, even if they were found to be violating emissions laws, because they still need consent from the owner.
- Urgo 7y ago
  All computer/phone operating system providers these days release updates to add/remove features as well. They don't own the hardware either.
  - userbinator 7y ago
    But almost always, the final decision on whether to install the update is the owner. In Tesla's case, it sounds like the owner has no ability to say no.
    - Urgo 7y ago
      Incorrect. I've had a Model S for almost 4 years now. In every case when an update comes out I have clicked "install now". If an update isn't desired you simply don't install it. The only thing I'll fault them on is the release notes aren't shown until after you install the update so its hard to know if you want it or not unless you look online. But in short, there IS a way to say no.
      - userbinator 7y ago
elihu 7y ago
It's troubling that they could add a feature to make Nyan Cat play continuously on the touchscreen and at high volume, and there's not a thing a Tesla owner could do to stop them. It's a relationship where they have all the leverage, and the person who paid for the car must rely on the manufacturer's continued benevolence. (Most customers of consumer electronics products have the same relationship with the makers thereof, and that's a big part of why practically everything with a screen is on some level regarded as disposable garbage.) On the other hand, if you drive around in an old Honda like I do, the worst thing Honda can do to me is stop manufacturing replacement parts, most of which probably have third-party alternatives anyways.

by Urgo 7y ago

FireBeyond 7y ago

Why is Tesla artificially limiting range to begin with? "Sorry, but you only paid for 15mpg from your BMW".

TomVDB 7y ago
Is that so much different than the common practice of “sorry, but you only paid for 150 HP” ?

patrick5415 7y ago

Whether the updates are beneficial or enervating, the ability to modify what should be my car is precisely the reason I will never own a Tesla.

Urgo 7y ago
Your loss. Have had a Model S for almost 4 years and it is absolutely amazing. Also I probably should point out that when the updates come out it is still up to the user, at least to some extent on whether they want to upgrade or not. I think it turns into a snooze game though but I know there were people that held out for years on software updates because they liked the old UX better. So you don't HAVE to update, its just pretty much universally preferred to upgrade.
sliken 7y ago
Why not just say no to updates... if that's what you want?

userbinator 7y ago

So is it troubling they can modify the car to add functionality? Absolutely yes. The problem is they are accessing and modifying something that they do not legally own (IANAL --- but the terminology they use when referring to paying and then being able to use a vehicle they made sounds very much not a rental or a lease), regardless of what that modification is. To stretch the analogy, I would be just as pissed if GM decided to send someone to my house and replace the tires on my car with new ones, and I couldn't do anything to stop them. Furthermore, the whole VW emissions thing shows what real ownership means --- they came up with an update to reduce emissions (and likely power or fuel economy...), and probably very strongly encouraged owners to get it, but ultimately if someone bought the car then they can't just go and "fix" it, even if they were found to be violating emissions laws, because they still need consent from the owner.

Urgo 7y ago
All computer/phone operating system providers these days release updates to add/remove features as well. They don't own the hardware either.
- userbinator 7y ago
  But almost always, the final decision on whether to install the update is the owner. In Tesla's case, it sounds like the owner has no ability to say no.
  - Urgo 7y ago
    Incorrect. I've had a Model S for almost 4 years now. In every case when an update comes out I have clicked "install now". If an update isn't desired you simply don't install it. The only thing I'll fault them on is the release notes aren't shown until after you install the update so its hard to know if you want it or not unless you look online. But in short, there IS a way to say no.
    - userbinator 7y ago

elihu 7y ago

It's troubling that they could add a feature to make Nyan Cat play continuously on the touchscreen and at high volume, and there's not a thing a Tesla owner could do to stop them. It's a relationship where they have all the leverage, and the person who paid for the car must rely on the manufacturer's continued benevolence. (Most customers of consumer electronics products have the same relationship with the makers thereof, and that's a big part of why practically everything with a screen is on some level regarded as disposable garbage.) On the other hand, if you drive around in an old Honda like I do, the worst thing Honda can do to me is stop manufacturing replacement parts, most of which probably have third-party alternatives anyways.