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So the trial period for the full version is over. Enjoy the features included in the standard license. I get market segmentation and having optional features i

So the trial period for the full version is over. Enjoy the features included in the standard license. I get market segmentation and having optional features in a car. But most car companies don't actually integrate a seat heater if you didn't order one. Lugging the weight of the extra hardware for these features around but being blocked from using them at all feels wromg to me.

sliken 7y ago
I can't talk percentages. But it's pretty common for most of the parts needed for an optional feature to be included. Things like wiring harneses for optional subwoofers, foglights, etc. Heating pads start around $15.00 on amazon, seems easy to believe it's cheaper to make only seats with heating integrated instead of making two part numbers, doubling the overhead for seat inventory, make the assembly line more complex, making the order system more complex, documentation, testing, doubling the overhead for car inventory, handling additional order complexity etc.
- SN76477 7y ago
  for all we know Tesla want to make on demand style manufacturing of vehicles possible.
  - koala_man 7y ago
    Car micropayments? "Don't freeze your butt off! Get an hour of warm seats for just $1.99"
    - AtHeartEngineer 7y ago
      This is really intriguing to think about, black mirror season 6? (Haven't watched 5 yet, no spoilers)
      - dx7tnt 7y ago
        Spoiler alert: compared to the other seasons, these ones are pretty crap and unengaging.
    - manicdee 7y ago
      $2 the two times a year I need them versus $1000 for having them all the time? Sold!
      - carlmr 7y ago
        They're only $2 in summer. In winter they're $100 a pop.
    - samfisher83 7y ago
      They can do surge pricing during winter. Imagine you get in your car its freezing and maybe you would pay 10 dollars for the seat warmer. Or maybe you are almost out of range and then you get a pop up for 100 dollars we will unlock that last 20 miles. You already have airlines and Free to play games nickel and diming you to death.
    - Udik 7y ago
      Somebody had foreseen this: "The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.” “I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.” In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip. “You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug. From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door. “I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out. Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it." Philip K. Dick, Ubik
    - type0 7y ago
      Why use tesla then? Nissan is generous about this and allows anyone to turn the heat in your car over the internet https://youtube-nocookie.com/embed/PP9DgLUBMUM?t=2832 https://youtube-nocookie.com/embed/PP9DgLUBMUM?t=2832
  - navigatesol 7y ago
    >for all we know Tesla want to make on demand style manufacturing of vehicles possible. How do you think modern JIT auto manufacturing works? And what if I told you that Tesla is, in fact, doing the opposite most of the time, by building in batches of cars and holding inventory? Why do we continue to attribute to Elon "inventions" that already exist?
  - gmueckl 7y ago
    What do you mean by on demand style? German automotive factories build to order. Wvery car in the factory floor has its specific configuration and the companies have invested decades of effort into production processes that allow them to have the properly customized parts and subassemblies arrive on time and in the proper order at the production lane. What could be better than this?
- navigatesol 7y ago
  >But it's pretty common for most of the parts needed for an optional feature to be included. No, this isn't "pretty common". I've worked on a variety of automotive assembly lines and have never seen it. Why would you waste the money? It's trivial to not include parts you don't need, because the lines are designed that way.
  - gmueckl 7y ago
    Thinking about it some more, there must be a break even point. Having many configurations means a higher initial development, testing and tooling effort. This breaks even only if the savings per unit accumulate to offset that overhead. So Tesla might be big enough for serious automation, but not yet big enough for actual prodyct customization on the factory floor. Pure speculation, though.
  - sliken 7y ago
    I just looked up how to add fog lights to the Subaru forester without fog lights. Turns out you need the lights and the switch, and no wiring.
wolfi1 7y ago
sounds like the Golden Screwdriver from IBM
eljimmy 7y ago
The Lexus IS300 and IS350 both have the exact same engine, only the 300 is detuned to not be as fast. You can do an after-market ECU tune and end up with the exact same performance as a 350. I don't understand why they decided to make two models out of the same engine.
- throw03172019 7y ago
  It does simplify manufacturing.
- magnat 7y ago
  > I don't understand why they decided to make two models out of the same engine. Increasing performance puts greater stress on the engine, increasing maintenance cost and/or failure rate. If engine breaks down before end of warranty, it's producer's cost.
- Grazester 7y ago
  Have been done for a really long time with car manufacturers.
- kirykl 7y ago
  The IS350 used to share the same engine as a Toyota Sienna minivan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine#2GR-FKS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine#2GR-FKS
  - segmondy 7y ago
    Nothing new, tons of cars share engines. The same engine in the Sienna also powers the RX350.
    - kirykl 7y ago
      No one said cars don’t share engines. OP is asking about why they make two models out of same engine. This is an extreme example of it.
- shereadsthenews 7y ago
paxys 7y ago
Manufacturing one single version of the hardware and then crippling the cheaper one is actually very common across cars, electronics and a lot of other consumer goods.
- zanny 7y ago
  What is common or normal does not make it right or ethical.
  - paxys 7y ago
    What makes it unethical?
    - topmonk 7y ago
      It turns the idea on its head that the price of something should be related to the cost of making it. If there were a bunch of viable Tesla-like alternatives out there, they wouldn't be able to afford to leave in disabled features. So, it's in essence exploiting their monopolistic position which is evil.
      - mrmonkeyman 7y ago
        > It turns the idea on its head that the price of something should be related to the cost of making it. Who told you this? It is blatantly untrue and the modern world would come crashing down fast if it were to be true. The financial sector is general would like a word with you. The only relation these concepts have is that production costs form a lower boundary: you have to charge more than it costs to produce it in order to turn a profit. There is no upper bound. Ask your friendly neighborhood notary or lawyer.
      - brianwawok 7y ago
        The cost of items is based on what you will pay, not what it cost to make. Capitalism 101.
        7y ago
walrus01 7y ago
> But most car companies don't actually integrate a seat heater if you didn't order one. Lugging the weight of the extra hardware for these features around but being blocked from using them at all feels wromg to me. I think they've learned from Juniper's licensing model for routers. They ship with all the hardware, but are reliant on license keys for full ability. Go look up the licensed versions of an mx204 for instance. Not something I'm a fan of.
philwelch 7y ago
“The first car company that truly understands software!” As if that were a good thing. Sheesh.
csomar 7y ago
> But most car companies don't actually integrate a seat heater if you didn't order one. Nope they do, and it is more common than you think. I become aware of this while on my friend Ford Fiesta as he enabled some features which were not available even in the most expensive model. It was a "wtf" moment. Until I realized that my car (mazda 3) does have features disabled by the seller. I just was too lazy to research unlocking them and doing it.
- navigatesol 7y ago
  >I become aware of this while on my friend Ford Fiesta as he enabled some features which were not available even in the most expensive model. As someone who has owned a Fiesta, and worked on a Ford auto assembly manufacturing line, I'd love to see some evidence of this. What features are you talking about? Because, having actually built seats for Ford, I know that they explicitly did not include heaters when they were not ordered. It was trivial to just not include the part; the assembly line was designed that way. You simply grabbed one cushion set vs another. Most auto manufacturers are actually concerned about margins and costs, so these things matter.
  - csomar 7y ago
    Don’t have the full list but the couple on my head were automatic wipers, and automatic rear view mirrors closing/opening.

sliken 7y ago

I can't talk percentages. But it's pretty common for most of the parts needed for an optional feature to be included. Things like wiring harneses for optional subwoofers, foglights, etc. Heating pads start around $15.00 on amazon, seems easy to believe it's cheaper to make only seats with heating integrated instead of making two part numbers, doubling the overhead for seat inventory, make the assembly line more complex, making the order system more complex, documentation, testing, doubling the overhead for car inventory, handling additional order complexity etc.

SN76477 7y ago
for all we know Tesla want to make on demand style manufacturing of vehicles possible.
- koala_man 7y ago
  Car micropayments? "Don't freeze your butt off! Get an hour of warm seats for just $1.99"
  - AtHeartEngineer 7y ago
    This is really intriguing to think about, black mirror season 6? (Haven't watched 5 yet, no spoilers)
    - dx7tnt 7y ago
      Spoiler alert: compared to the other seasons, these ones are pretty crap and unengaging.
  - manicdee 7y ago
    $2 the two times a year I need them versus $1000 for having them all the time? Sold!
    - carlmr 7y ago
      They're only $2 in summer. In winter they're $100 a pop.
  - samfisher83 7y ago
    They can do surge pricing during winter. Imagine you get in your car its freezing and maybe you would pay 10 dollars for the seat warmer. Or maybe you are almost out of range and then you get a pop up for 100 dollars we will unlock that last 20 miles. You already have airlines and Free to play games nickel and diming you to death.
  - Udik 7y ago
    Somebody had foreseen this: "The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.” “I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.” In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip. “You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug. From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door. “I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out. Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it." Philip K. Dick, Ubik
  - type0 7y ago
    Why use tesla then? Nissan is generous about this and allows anyone to turn the heat in your car over the internet https://youtube-nocookie.com/embed/PP9DgLUBMUM?t=2832 https://youtube-nocookie.com/embed/PP9DgLUBMUM?t=2832
- navigatesol 7y ago
  >for all we know Tesla want to make on demand style manufacturing of vehicles possible. How do you think modern JIT auto manufacturing works? And what if I told you that Tesla is, in fact, doing the opposite most of the time, by building in batches of cars and holding inventory? Why do we continue to attribute to Elon "inventions" that already exist?
- gmueckl 7y ago
  What do you mean by on demand style? German automotive factories build to order. Wvery car in the factory floor has its specific configuration and the companies have invested decades of effort into production processes that allow them to have the properly customized parts and subassemblies arrive on time and in the proper order at the production lane. What could be better than this?
navigatesol 7y ago
>But it's pretty common for most of the parts needed for an optional feature to be included. No, this isn't "pretty common". I've worked on a variety of automotive assembly lines and have never seen it. Why would you waste the money? It's trivial to not include parts you don't need, because the lines are designed that way.
- gmueckl 7y ago
  Thinking about it some more, there must be a break even point. Having many configurations means a higher initial development, testing and tooling effort. This breaks even only if the savings per unit accumulate to offset that overhead. So Tesla might be big enough for serious automation, but not yet big enough for actual prodyct customization on the factory floor. Pure speculation, though.
- sliken 7y ago
  I just looked up how to add fog lights to the Subaru forester without fog lights. Turns out you need the lights and the switch, and no wiring.

wolfi1 7y ago

sounds like the Golden Screwdriver from IBM

eljimmy 7y ago

The Lexus IS300 and IS350 both have the exact same engine, only the 300 is detuned to not be as fast. You can do an after-market ECU tune and end up with the exact same performance as a 350. I don't understand why they decided to make two models out of the same engine.

throw03172019 7y ago
It does simplify manufacturing.
magnat 7y ago
> I don't understand why they decided to make two models out of the same engine. Increasing performance puts greater stress on the engine, increasing maintenance cost and/or failure rate. If engine breaks down before end of warranty, it's producer's cost.
Grazester 7y ago
Have been done for a really long time with car manufacturers.
kirykl 7y ago
The IS350 used to share the same engine as a Toyota Sienna minivan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine#2GR-FKS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine#2GR-FKS
- segmondy 7y ago
  Nothing new, tons of cars share engines. The same engine in the Sienna also powers the RX350.
  - kirykl 7y ago
    No one said cars don’t share engines. OP is asking about why they make two models out of same engine. This is an extreme example of it.
shereadsthenews 7y ago

paxys 7y ago

Manufacturing one single version of the hardware and then crippling the cheaper one is actually very common across cars, electronics and a lot of other consumer goods.

zanny 7y ago
What is common or normal does not make it right or ethical.
- paxys 7y ago
  What makes it unethical?
  - topmonk 7y ago
    It turns the idea on its head that the price of something should be related to the cost of making it. If there were a bunch of viable Tesla-like alternatives out there, they wouldn't be able to afford to leave in disabled features. So, it's in essence exploiting their monopolistic position which is evil.
    - mrmonkeyman 7y ago
      > It turns the idea on its head that the price of something should be related to the cost of making it. Who told you this? It is blatantly untrue and the modern world would come crashing down fast if it were to be true. The financial sector is general would like a word with you. The only relation these concepts have is that production costs form a lower boundary: you have to charge more than it costs to produce it in order to turn a profit. There is no upper bound. Ask your friendly neighborhood notary or lawyer.
    - brianwawok 7y ago
      The cost of items is based on what you will pay, not what it cost to make. Capitalism 101.
      - 7y ago

walrus01 7y ago

> But most car companies don't actually integrate a seat heater if you didn't order one. Lugging the weight of the extra hardware for these features around but being blocked from using them at all feels wromg to me. I think they've learned from Juniper's licensing model for routers. They ship with all the hardware, but are reliant on license keys for full ability. Go look up the licensed versions of an mx204 for instance. Not something I'm a fan of.

philwelch 7y ago

“The first car company that truly understands software!” As if that were a good thing. Sheesh.

csomar 7y ago

> But most car companies don't actually integrate a seat heater if you didn't order one. Nope they do, and it is more common than you think. I become aware of this while on my friend Ford Fiesta as he enabled some features which were not available even in the most expensive model. It was a "wtf" moment. Until I realized that my car (mazda 3) does have features disabled by the seller. I just was too lazy to research unlocking them and doing it.

navigatesol 7y ago
>I become aware of this while on my friend Ford Fiesta as he enabled some features which were not available even in the most expensive model. As someone who has owned a Fiesta, and worked on a Ford auto assembly manufacturing line, I'd love to see some evidence of this. What features are you talking about? Because, having actually built seats for Ford, I know that they explicitly did not include heaters when they were not ordered. It was trivial to just not include the part; the assembly line was designed that way. You simply grabbed one cushion set vs another. Most auto manufacturers are actually concerned about margins and costs, so these things matter.
- csomar 7y ago
  Don’t have the full list but the couple on my head were automatic wipers, and automatic rear view mirrors closing/opening.