6 ms·

Fantastic. It is the asymmetry in information collection that is so frustrating as a consumer. In an ideal marketplace, information flows freely, and informed c

by toufka 7y ago

Fantastic. It is the asymmetry in information collection that is so frustrating as a consumer. In an ideal marketplace, information flows freely, and informed choices make the market move towards efficient transactions. When no consumers know what information is being collected or how it’s used, and it’s value is obfuscated, then deep rifts in expectations can emerge. We need more of this sunlight in order to make good decisions about how we generate and share information about our lives.

m463 7y ago
With trust, trade is unlimited. That said, we should be able to say NO - and this includes apple. For instance, why should we have to identify ourselves to apple?
- reaperducer 7y ago
  AFAIK, you don't. An iPhone will work fine without signing in to any Apple service and you can opt out of all Apple data collection right in the device. I've set up several testing iDevices for work with no Apple accounts. The only thing you can't do without an Apple account is to use the Apple services like the App Store and iCloud and other paid services. I think even software updates can be done without an account, but I'm not sure since I haven't tried this.
  - rcw4256 7y ago
    What good is an iPhone without access to the App Store?
    - 14 7y ago
      An iPhone can do a lot without any apps installed besides the stock apps. Pictures, calling, texting, web browsing, many many services online with a web interface like banking tinder facebook and many other popular platforms. The limitations of the original iPhone had some issues but Apple has slowly integrated the best features. That brings me to another point, many features apple copied from jailbreakers and you can also jailbreak some versions of ios and run all sorts of apps not in the app store.
    - labster 7y ago
      People bought lots of iPhones before the App Store existed. Before Cydia even existed. They were pretty good. You could send SMS messages, browse the web, take photos, and play it like an iPod even.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - saurik 7y ago
        FWIW, before Cydia there was Installer, and before that something whose name I am not quite remembering (and don't care to look up rocky now)... and I am pretty sure it was running on over 50% of all those original iPhones, as people really found it strange to have a cell phone without even a single game (even Nokia candy bar phones had Snake). (But yeah: at least some people clearly still wanted the device. But that was in a world where there wasn't tempting reason to as everything was accessible with a web browser. In 2019, that reality no longer exists, and without access to app store on a smartphone there are many many things you are cut off from.)
        tty2300 7y ago
        Almost everything still is available in a web browser. There are very few apps I use on my phone that aren't a web browser or system apps. I think that you should be able to install your own app store like fdroid which doesn't require a sign in.
        behnamoh 7y ago
        I think with the advent of web apps, the need for native iOS apps will decrease, at least in some areas. Fortunately, this happens to coincide with the advancements in internet speed and coverage. In a few years: You want to play a game? Fine, let's bing it in Safari and play right there. "there's an app for that" soon will become "there's a web app for that".
        sbuk 7y ago
        That was the original intention for the iPhone, 12 years ago. Developers wailed.
    - bredren 7y ago
      My dad does not use / allow iOS access to his location on his iPhone. I am nonplussed by this and have tried to convince him of the value and yet he will not enable it.
    - notafrog 7y ago
      I agree with you. Of course, an iPhone can surf the web, make calls, take pictures, run the calculator, etc. However, lack of means to install apps without the App Store (besides sideloading), can render any phone pretty much useless. Android has problems of its own though. Yes, you could install apps easily without access to the Play Store. But most Android apps rely upon Google's Play Services one way or another, so those apps wouldn't work properly, if at all.
    - kartickv 7y ago
      Good question, and we shouldn't need an account to download free apps, just as we don't on the desktop. Only when I download I paid app do I want to identify myself so that I can download it again.
      - tekknik 7y ago
        You do need an app to install via the app store on a mac desktop. if you mean via external methods then jailbreak? if you’re asking for apple to allow anybody to release an ipa on a site and allow download and install then this horse is dead already
        kartickv 7y ago
        I'm suggesting that app stores (iOS, Mac, Google Play) shouldn't require users to create an account just to download free apps. Partly for privacy, and partly because it's an unnecessary hurdle for users to jump over, and partly because it causes other issues like my Purchased list being polluted with too many free apps, making it hard to find what I actually purchased. It's my device, not Apple's or Google's, so I should be able to download a third-party app without identifying myself to the app store owner. In my last comment, I did not ask for iDevices to be able to install apps from outside the iOS app store.
    - Angostura 7y ago
      It's a phone, web browser, e-mail client, you can send and receive texts, use it for reminders, calendar, to play music, to stream music. Quite a lot really.
    - tekknik 7y ago
      for specifically the tracking issues, i do my best to avoid installing an app. currently the only thing on my phone that didn’t come stock are various chat apps (discord, steam, twitch) and the kindle app.
  - sametmax 7y ago
    Can you use alternative app store on your non sign-in apple device without rooting it ? Because on android you can.
  - m463 7y ago
    I have not set up an iPhone from scratch in over a year (in particular I'm uncertain if I have set up a device from scratch with ios 12, I know I have upgraded one) Does your comment apply to non-phone iOS devices, or does it include iPhones? With the latest OS, do you have to identify yourself or create an apple id to start using an iPhone? Also, is this in the US or outside of the US? (thanks!)
- redprince 7y ago
  I'm fairly certain that you don't have to identify in any way at least where I live (Germany). You need to register your Apple account with a valid E-Mail address, which can be as fake as you want it to be. Store credits can be bought anonymously with cash at gas stations or other brick and mortar stores.
  - NicoJuicy 7y ago
    But a SIM-card is normally not anonymous, no?
antpls 7y ago
Also, the problem is biologic : an human has a limited ability to receive, process and integrate new information for a given period of time. The data centers and CPUs are able to process magnitude more "information" than a single human, the market cannot be a free flow of information between humans and machines. We have to define what the quantity of information an human can reasonably receive and give attention to, and put some limit into the market to not overhelm people.

by toufka 7y ago

m463 7y ago

With trust, trade is unlimited. That said, we should be able to say NO - and this includes apple. For instance, why should we have to identify ourselves to apple?

reaperducer 7y ago
AFAIK, you don't. An iPhone will work fine without signing in to any Apple service and you can opt out of all Apple data collection right in the device. I've set up several testing iDevices for work with no Apple accounts. The only thing you can't do without an Apple account is to use the Apple services like the App Store and iCloud and other paid services. I think even software updates can be done without an account, but I'm not sure since I haven't tried this.
- rcw4256 7y ago
  What good is an iPhone without access to the App Store?
  - 14 7y ago
    An iPhone can do a lot without any apps installed besides the stock apps. Pictures, calling, texting, web browsing, many many services online with a web interface like banking tinder facebook and many other popular platforms. The limitations of the original iPhone had some issues but Apple has slowly integrated the best features. That brings me to another point, many features apple copied from jailbreakers and you can also jailbreak some versions of ios and run all sorts of apps not in the app store.
  - labster 7y ago
    People bought lots of iPhones before the App Store existed. Before Cydia even existed. They were pretty good. You could send SMS messages, browse the web, take photos, and play it like an iPod even.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - saurik 7y ago
      FWIW, before Cydia there was Installer, and before that something whose name I am not quite remembering (and don't care to look up rocky now)... and I am pretty sure it was running on over 50% of all those original iPhones, as people really found it strange to have a cell phone without even a single game (even Nokia candy bar phones had Snake). (But yeah: at least some people clearly still wanted the device. But that was in a world where there wasn't tempting reason to as everything was accessible with a web browser. In 2019, that reality no longer exists, and without access to app store on a smartphone there are many many things you are cut off from.)
      - tty2300 7y ago
        Almost everything still is available in a web browser. There are very few apps I use on my phone that aren't a web browser or system apps. I think that you should be able to install your own app store like fdroid which doesn't require a sign in.
      - behnamoh 7y ago
        I think with the advent of web apps, the need for native iOS apps will decrease, at least in some areas. Fortunately, this happens to coincide with the advancements in internet speed and coverage. In a few years: You want to play a game? Fine, let's bing it in Safari and play right there. "there's an app for that" soon will become "there's a web app for that".
        sbuk 7y ago
        That was the original intention for the iPhone, 12 years ago. Developers wailed.
  - bredren 7y ago
    My dad does not use / allow iOS access to his location on his iPhone. I am nonplussed by this and have tried to convince him of the value and yet he will not enable it.
  - notafrog 7y ago
    I agree with you. Of course, an iPhone can surf the web, make calls, take pictures, run the calculator, etc. However, lack of means to install apps without the App Store (besides sideloading), can render any phone pretty much useless. Android has problems of its own though. Yes, you could install apps easily without access to the Play Store. But most Android apps rely upon Google's Play Services one way or another, so those apps wouldn't work properly, if at all.
  - kartickv 7y ago
    Good question, and we shouldn't need an account to download free apps, just as we don't on the desktop. Only when I download I paid app do I want to identify myself so that I can download it again.
    - tekknik 7y ago
      You do need an app to install via the app store on a mac desktop. if you mean via external methods then jailbreak? if you’re asking for apple to allow anybody to release an ipa on a site and allow download and install then this horse is dead already
      - kartickv 7y ago
        I'm suggesting that app stores (iOS, Mac, Google Play) shouldn't require users to create an account just to download free apps. Partly for privacy, and partly because it's an unnecessary hurdle for users to jump over, and partly because it causes other issues like my Purchased list being polluted with too many free apps, making it hard to find what I actually purchased. It's my device, not Apple's or Google's, so I should be able to download a third-party app without identifying myself to the app store owner. In my last comment, I did not ask for iDevices to be able to install apps from outside the iOS app store.
  - Angostura 7y ago
    It's a phone, web browser, e-mail client, you can send and receive texts, use it for reminders, calendar, to play music, to stream music. Quite a lot really.
  - tekknik 7y ago
    for specifically the tracking issues, i do my best to avoid installing an app. currently the only thing on my phone that didn’t come stock are various chat apps (discord, steam, twitch) and the kindle app.
- sametmax 7y ago
  Can you use alternative app store on your non sign-in apple device without rooting it ? Because on android you can.
- m463 7y ago
  I have not set up an iPhone from scratch in over a year (in particular I'm uncertain if I have set up a device from scratch with ios 12, I know I have upgraded one) Does your comment apply to non-phone iOS devices, or does it include iPhones? With the latest OS, do you have to identify yourself or create an apple id to start using an iPhone? Also, is this in the US or outside of the US? (thanks!)
redprince 7y ago
I'm fairly certain that you don't have to identify in any way at least where I live (Germany). You need to register your Apple account with a valid E-Mail address, which can be as fake as you want it to be. Store credits can be bought anonymously with cash at gas stations or other brick and mortar stores.
- NicoJuicy 7y ago
  But a SIM-card is normally not anonymous, no?

antpls 7y ago

Also, the problem is biologic : an human has a limited ability to receive, process and integrate new information for a given period of time. The data centers and CPUs are able to process magnitude more "information" than a single human, the market cannot be a free flow of information between humans and machines. We have to define what the quantity of information an human can reasonably receive and give attention to, and put some limit into the market to not overhelm people.