3 ms·

Imagine that almost everything made by a new company never existed. That would be a problem. Groups of people who make things that only benefit themselves gener

Imagine that almost everything made by a new company never existed. That would be a problem. Groups of people who make things that only benefit themselves generally aren't called businesses. The poster above explained that the new product might, say, increase the productivity of plumbers by 50%, and all other apps on the market are far worse.

icebraining 7y ago
> Imagine that almost everything made by a new company never existed. That would be a problem. Yeah, I'm not sure. Very little new stuff is actually better, and the constant churn has problems of its own. I'd need some evidence to show this would actually be a problem.
- SerLava 7y ago
  If your position here is that invention itself has created negative value overall, we really can't have any conversation about the world. I mean,
  - anoncake 7y ago
    Inventions probably[1] have created positive value. It's certainly possible to derive positive value from them by just not using harmful inventions. That is basically what the Amish are trying to do. That doesn't mean that most inventions are beneficial. It's very much possible that only 5% are beneficial but their benefits outweigh the harm done by the other 95%. Useful inventions don't need advertising to spread. They even did so during the middle ages. No one ran adverts to sell crop rotation. It spread because it's a good idea. It took a while but that's because compared to today, information and transportation networks basically didn't exist. Advertising as we know it today isn't even helpful for spreading useful inventions. Yes, there are ads for them, but they are crowded out by useless ones. If the message we get from advertising is > DRINK SUGARY WATER. KYS WITH CIGARETTES. YOU'RE WORTHLESS WITHOUT CARBON CRYSTALS. DRINK SUGARY WATER. KYS WITH CIGARETTES. YOU'RE WORTHLESS WITHOUT CARBON CRYSTALS. ELECTRIC LIGHT IS GREAT. DRINK SUGARY WATER. KYS WITH CIGARETTES. YOU'RE WORTHLESS WITHOUT CARBON CRYSTALS. DRINK SUGARY WATER. KYS WITH CIGARETTES. YOU'RE WORTHLESS WITHOUT CARBON CRYSTALS. you could argue that speeding up the spread of electric light is worth the damage done by advertising. But what happens here is that garbage ads crowd out the actual useful information. It's hidden like a needle is haystack. Information overload and the associated stress reduces people's ability to find the useful information and to actually think about what they need and want. The alternative is not to abolish communication. You don't need ads for people to learn about products that are useful to them. That's in their interests so they will seek out newspapers, magazines etc. that report about new products — aiming to serve and inform the customers that buy them rather than the producers that want to sell their products whether they someone needs them or not. The above wall of text would not be replaced by nothing but by "FYI: electric light exists. Its advantages are.... but keep in mind that...." — information rather than spam. [1] Are we really happier than hunters and gatherers?
    - andrenth 7y ago
      > Are we really happier than hunters and gatherers? Would you be happier having to risk your life daily to get food and constantly facing hunger? This is just romanticizing primitivism.
      - anoncake 7y ago
        You can't answer a question with the same question.
        andrenth 7y ago
        Are you trolling? The question is reworded in order to make it clear that we are definitely happier than hunter-gatherers, who had a terrible life. Trying to imply the opposite is just naive romanticism.
        anoncake 7y ago
        No matter how you word it: If I knew the answer, I wouldn't ask it.
        andrenth 7y ago
        Well, the answer is “yes”.
        anoncake 7y ago
        Probably.
    - SerLava 7y ago
      >Useful inventions don't need advertising to spread. This is a common superstition, like faeries or psychic powers. >Are we really happier than hunters and gatherers Are you talking about the people who had like a 40% murder rate? The people with piles of dead babies buried out back. The modern world is depressing and frought with new problems, but most of them are the inevitable product of high population density. Many of our inventions are built to deal with higher population density. The choices are A) create technology with some downsides, or B) genocide I really don't think I can convince someone that advertising is sometimes necessary when they'd rather smear blood on their forehead and beat a deer to death with a rock.

icebraining 7y ago

> Imagine that almost everything made by a new company never existed. That would be a problem. Yeah, I'm not sure. Very little new stuff is actually better, and the constant churn has problems of its own. I'd need some evidence to show this would actually be a problem.

SerLava 7y ago
If your position here is that invention itself has created negative value overall, we really can't have any conversation about the world. I mean,
- anoncake 7y ago
  Inventions probably[1] have created positive value. It's certainly possible to derive positive value from them by just not using harmful inventions. That is basically what the Amish are trying to do. That doesn't mean that most inventions are beneficial. It's very much possible that only 5% are beneficial but their benefits outweigh the harm done by the other 95%. Useful inventions don't need advertising to spread. They even did so during the middle ages. No one ran adverts to sell crop rotation. It spread because it's a good idea. It took a while but that's because compared to today, information and transportation networks basically didn't exist. Advertising as we know it today isn't even helpful for spreading useful inventions. Yes, there are ads for them, but they are crowded out by useless ones. If the message we get from advertising is > DRINK SUGARY WATER. KYS WITH CIGARETTES. YOU'RE WORTHLESS WITHOUT CARBON CRYSTALS. DRINK SUGARY WATER. KYS WITH CIGARETTES. YOU'RE WORTHLESS WITHOUT CARBON CRYSTALS. ELECTRIC LIGHT IS GREAT. DRINK SUGARY WATER. KYS WITH CIGARETTES. YOU'RE WORTHLESS WITHOUT CARBON CRYSTALS. DRINK SUGARY WATER. KYS WITH CIGARETTES. YOU'RE WORTHLESS WITHOUT CARBON CRYSTALS. you could argue that speeding up the spread of electric light is worth the damage done by advertising. But what happens here is that garbage ads crowd out the actual useful information. It's hidden like a needle is haystack. Information overload and the associated stress reduces people's ability to find the useful information and to actually think about what they need and want. The alternative is not to abolish communication. You don't need ads for people to learn about products that are useful to them. That's in their interests so they will seek out newspapers, magazines etc. that report about new products — aiming to serve and inform the customers that buy them rather than the producers that want to sell their products whether they someone needs them or not. The above wall of text would not be replaced by nothing but by "FYI: electric light exists. Its advantages are.... but keep in mind that...." — information rather than spam. [1] Are we really happier than hunters and gatherers?
  - andrenth 7y ago
    > Are we really happier than hunters and gatherers? Would you be happier having to risk your life daily to get food and constantly facing hunger? This is just romanticizing primitivism.
    - anoncake 7y ago
      You can't answer a question with the same question.
      - andrenth 7y ago
        Are you trolling? The question is reworded in order to make it clear that we are definitely happier than hunter-gatherers, who had a terrible life. Trying to imply the opposite is just naive romanticism.
        anoncake 7y ago
        No matter how you word it: If I knew the answer, I wouldn't ask it.
        andrenth 7y ago
        Well, the answer is “yes”.
        anoncake 7y ago
        Probably.
  - SerLava 7y ago
    >Useful inventions don't need advertising to spread. This is a common superstition, like faeries or psychic powers. >Are we really happier than hunters and gatherers Are you talking about the people who had like a 40% murder rate? The people with piles of dead babies buried out back. The modern world is depressing and frought with new problems, but most of them are the inevitable product of high population density. Many of our inventions are built to deal with higher population density. The choices are A) create technology with some downsides, or B) genocide I really don't think I can convince someone that advertising is sometimes necessary when they'd rather smear blood on their forehead and beat a deer to death with a rock.