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there are obvious answers, likely interrelated older devs had to go into management to keep their career trajectory, no matter whether they liked coding or man

there are obvious answers, likely interrelated older devs had to go into management to keep their career trajectory, no matter whether they liked coding or management more. the ones that failed in some way - meaning a disruption in their spending and earning capability - are the only ones on the market trying to get programming jobs, and complaining about it. fixing the earning trajectory in a programming track helps fix this outcome too. FAANG companies seem to have figured it out for people they've already hired.

pixelrevision 7y ago
I wonder how much the transition to management helps nowadays. I have a few friends who did that, lost a lot of technical relevance and have had a terrible time finding new jobs as many places promote from within.
RandomOpinion 7y ago
> older devs had to go into management to keep their career trajectory ... FAANG companies seem to have figured it out for people they've already hired. The FAANG companies and other technology platform companies have separate technical and management career tracks. Only those who want to be managers become managers.
- cycrutchfield 7y ago
  In theory, yes. In practice, no. At a certain point, a lot of engineers plateau in terms of technical ability and are unable to continue to level up. For many, they feel compelled to switch tracks to management to continue to make progress, regardless of whether they have any innate ability or desire to excel at management.
  - maxheadroom 7y ago
    >...they feel compelled to switch tracks to management to continue to make progress, regardless of whether they have any innate ability or desire to excel at management. Can confirm: Once you "plateau" in a division, the only options are lateralling to a technology you don't know (with the same expectations exacted upon you) or simply going management and that assumes that there's room in management. Given how frequently "organisational shifts/changes" occur, that could leave you out in the cold, just as well.
  - JudgeWapner 7y ago
    > to continue to make progress, or they fall for the money-making scam, where their new car payment is now the same amount as their rent originally was when they began their careers. Buying larger houses, etc. Basically always barely acclimating to their new level of wealth, so that they always try to climb up the next rung. I recently quit a job that was advertised as a developer but turned into 90% paperwork. Lasted over a year (it was contractor anyway). But in hindsight, basically NO amount of money would make me happy or willing to fill out forms all day. Seriously, even another $100k wouldn't make me feel any better, I'd still be miserable and not doing what I love.
  - manfredo 7y ago
    My company does explicitly say that certain levels, roughly equivalent to a staff engineer at most companies, will likely be a career level (as in, you will never advance beyond it) for many people that level still pays very well - easily in the 200-300 TC range maybe more. As long as companies are okay with developers being at this level for a long time - perhaps even decades - I'm fine with it. The only thing that would bother me is an "up or out" kind of culture, that prioritizes "velocity". Fortunately I think more and more companies are getting comfortable with developers that they no will never progress beyond a senior developer role.
jobigoud 7y ago
> older devs had to go into management to keep their career trajectory, no matter whether they liked coding or management more. This just implies they like keeping their career trajectory more than coding.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  yes, money. life changes that required more money to maintain their current or desired standard of living. expectation of life changes that required more money to maintain their current or desired standard of living. expectation of generational wealth if their inheritance or lack thereof doesn't already accomplish that for them. did I really need to spell that out? I know some people can't relate, but its not clear to me how much they can't relate
- lallysingh 7y ago
  They like paying their mortgage and providing for their families more than coding.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    If you live anywhere besides the west coast in a major city and have 7-10 years of experience you can easily make $130K as a senior developer. That puts you right at the 5th quintile of household income. If your spouse is making even $50K that puts you in the top decile. https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/ You don’t need to move into middle management to comfortable support a family.
    - rolltiide 7y ago
      Except you have to spend an entire month of your life commuting every year. Non-optimal. Gotta make more, gotta save more, gotta send your children to better school. And thats just the baseline.
      - scarface74 7y ago

pixelrevision 7y ago

I wonder how much the transition to management helps nowadays. I have a few friends who did that, lost a lot of technical relevance and have had a terrible time finding new jobs as many places promote from within.

RandomOpinion 7y ago

> older devs had to go into management to keep their career trajectory ... FAANG companies seem to have figured it out for people they've already hired. The FAANG companies and other technology platform companies have separate technical and management career tracks. Only those who want to be managers become managers.

cycrutchfield 7y ago
In theory, yes. In practice, no. At a certain point, a lot of engineers plateau in terms of technical ability and are unable to continue to level up. For many, they feel compelled to switch tracks to management to continue to make progress, regardless of whether they have any innate ability or desire to excel at management.
- maxheadroom 7y ago
  >...they feel compelled to switch tracks to management to continue to make progress, regardless of whether they have any innate ability or desire to excel at management. Can confirm: Once you "plateau" in a division, the only options are lateralling to a technology you don't know (with the same expectations exacted upon you) or simply going management and that assumes that there's room in management. Given how frequently "organisational shifts/changes" occur, that could leave you out in the cold, just as well.
- JudgeWapner 7y ago
  > to continue to make progress, or they fall for the money-making scam, where their new car payment is now the same amount as their rent originally was when they began their careers. Buying larger houses, etc. Basically always barely acclimating to their new level of wealth, so that they always try to climb up the next rung. I recently quit a job that was advertised as a developer but turned into 90% paperwork. Lasted over a year (it was contractor anyway). But in hindsight, basically NO amount of money would make me happy or willing to fill out forms all day. Seriously, even another $100k wouldn't make me feel any better, I'd still be miserable and not doing what I love.
- manfredo 7y ago
  My company does explicitly say that certain levels, roughly equivalent to a staff engineer at most companies, will likely be a career level (as in, you will never advance beyond it) for many people that level still pays very well - easily in the 200-300 TC range maybe more. As long as companies are okay with developers being at this level for a long time - perhaps even decades - I'm fine with it. The only thing that would bother me is an "up or out" kind of culture, that prioritizes "velocity". Fortunately I think more and more companies are getting comfortable with developers that they no will never progress beyond a senior developer role.

jobigoud 7y ago

> older devs had to go into management to keep their career trajectory, no matter whether they liked coding or management more. This just implies they like keeping their career trajectory more than coding.

rolltiide 7y ago
yes, money. life changes that required more money to maintain their current or desired standard of living. expectation of life changes that required more money to maintain their current or desired standard of living. expectation of generational wealth if their inheritance or lack thereof doesn't already accomplish that for them. did I really need to spell that out? I know some people can't relate, but its not clear to me how much they can't relate
lallysingh 7y ago
They like paying their mortgage and providing for their families more than coding.
- scarface74 7y ago
  If you live anywhere besides the west coast in a major city and have 7-10 years of experience you can easily make $130K as a senior developer. That puts you right at the 5th quintile of household income. If your spouse is making even $50K that puts you in the top decile. https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/ You don’t need to move into middle management to comfortable support a family.
  - rolltiide 7y ago
    Except you have to spend an entire month of your life commuting every year. Non-optimal. Gotta make more, gotta save more, gotta send your children to better school. And thats just the baseline.
    - scarface74 7y ago