3 ms·

I hear you and understand you, but your argument is essentially nullified by the existence of Taiwan. We have proof positive that the Chinese culture is not on

I hear you and understand you, but your argument is essentially nullified by the existence of Taiwan. We have proof positive that the Chinese culture is not only compatible with democracy, it flourishes beneath it.

theseadroid 7y ago
I'm not saying Chinese culture is incompatible with democracy. I'm talking about eduction mainly. If you look into post WWII histories of Taiwan/South Korea, it wont be hard for you to find a few dictators within the democracies[1]. I personally think during those periods the citizens of those democracies were catching up on how democracy works. 1. examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Chung-hee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Chung-hee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek
- komali2 7y ago
  Could not fantastic education provide an intelligent enough population to handle democracy within a single generation? I.e.... exactly what happened in Taiwan upon the removal of martial law? The USA managed it swaths of the country spread across a frontier.
  - theseadroid 7y ago
    But you have to admit there are risks for the switching, i.e. there are countries that become worse after the switching. Personally, I dont think democracy is the cure to the current problems. Education probably is. And I haven't been presented with enough evidence to think otherwise. Like, did Taiwan become drastic better after removal of martial laws? Or is Taiwan at a better position today mainly because of the help of U.S.? Is there any other third world democratic countries that have developed as fast or faster than China, who is NOT a U.S. ally?
    - repolfx 7y ago
      Which democracy are you thinking of that 'became worse after switching'? I can't think of any, though I can think of a few countries that mostly botched the switch and ended up in a sort of pseudo-democracy.
    - komali2 7y ago
      How would education help under the current regime? Xi jinping isn't going anywhere until he dies, and Party members aren't elected (well some kinda are). What good does education do if it doesn't drive government changes? What changes would the PRC allow at all?
jimclegg 7y ago
I think its a bit premature, but do you really think China under a democratic system would be better for the world? What would Chinese populism look like when it eventually emerges given more democratic features? Are you sure we are ready for a Chinese Trump? and for the silent majority of China to dictate foreign policy? I'm from the school of "be careful what you wish for".
- komali2 7y ago
  We have a competent Chinese Trump today in the form of xi jinping - the difference being instead of being limited to merely separating children the children of Other from their Parents and throwing them in jail, Jinping is directing the wholesale imprisonment and "reeducation" of entire religions, and occasionally just taking their organs from them. I'll take a democratically elected trump that is gone in at most 8 years over the now irremovable xi jinping. So yes, democracy is unilaterally the better option for China.
  - theseadroid 7y ago
    have you talked to any Chinese people and how many of them oppose this reeducation of entire religions? I'm just curious whether that will still happen in your planned democratic China.
    - komali2 7y ago
      In a democratic China the Uighurs will have representatives. If they don't, it's not democratic yet. Ask other democratic nations if they can get away with voting for systematic oppression of a people via a vote. Historically, decentralizing power (i.e. via democracy) leads to less shittiness for more people. In any case, what possible reason would the average Chinese person have to systematically oppress the Uighurs or falun gong? They're only oppressed now because their religion poses a threat to the cultural control the Party exerts over the people. In a democracy, that control vanishes.
      - theseadroid 7y ago

theseadroid 7y ago

I'm not saying Chinese culture is incompatible with democracy. I'm talking about eduction mainly. If you look into post WWII histories of Taiwan/South Korea, it wont be hard for you to find a few dictators within the democracies[1]. I personally think during those periods the citizens of those democracies were catching up on how democracy works. 1. examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Chung-hee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Chung-hee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek

komali2 7y ago
Could not fantastic education provide an intelligent enough population to handle democracy within a single generation? I.e.... exactly what happened in Taiwan upon the removal of martial law? The USA managed it swaths of the country spread across a frontier.
- theseadroid 7y ago
  But you have to admit there are risks for the switching, i.e. there are countries that become worse after the switching. Personally, I dont think democracy is the cure to the current problems. Education probably is. And I haven't been presented with enough evidence to think otherwise. Like, did Taiwan become drastic better after removal of martial laws? Or is Taiwan at a better position today mainly because of the help of U.S.? Is there any other third world democratic countries that have developed as fast or faster than China, who is NOT a U.S. ally?
  - repolfx 7y ago
    Which democracy are you thinking of that 'became worse after switching'? I can't think of any, though I can think of a few countries that mostly botched the switch and ended up in a sort of pseudo-democracy.
  - komali2 7y ago
    How would education help under the current regime? Xi jinping isn't going anywhere until he dies, and Party members aren't elected (well some kinda are). What good does education do if it doesn't drive government changes? What changes would the PRC allow at all?

jimclegg 7y ago

I think its a bit premature, but do you really think China under a democratic system would be better for the world? What would Chinese populism look like when it eventually emerges given more democratic features? Are you sure we are ready for a Chinese Trump? and for the silent majority of China to dictate foreign policy? I'm from the school of "be careful what you wish for".

komali2 7y ago
We have a competent Chinese Trump today in the form of xi jinping - the difference being instead of being limited to merely separating children the children of Other from their Parents and throwing them in jail, Jinping is directing the wholesale imprisonment and "reeducation" of entire religions, and occasionally just taking their organs from them. I'll take a democratically elected trump that is gone in at most 8 years over the now irremovable xi jinping. So yes, democracy is unilaterally the better option for China.
- theseadroid 7y ago
  have you talked to any Chinese people and how many of them oppose this reeducation of entire religions? I'm just curious whether that will still happen in your planned democratic China.
  - komali2 7y ago
    In a democratic China the Uighurs will have representatives. If they don't, it's not democratic yet. Ask other democratic nations if they can get away with voting for systematic oppression of a people via a vote. Historically, decentralizing power (i.e. via democracy) leads to less shittiness for more people. In any case, what possible reason would the average Chinese person have to systematically oppress the Uighurs or falun gong? They're only oppressed now because their religion poses a threat to the cultural control the Party exerts over the people. In a democracy, that control vanishes.
    - theseadroid 7y ago