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I love the scrolling transition at the beginning of this article. It really feels like an excellent piece of internet art.

golergka 7y ago
It's also a very misleading and dishonest journalism, as many of YouTubers displayed in the final stages have nothing to do with the alt-right.
- dannyr 7y ago
  I read the article and it mentioned that in the past year YouTube started recommending videos from left-leaning creators. "IN 2018, nearly four years after Mr. Cain had begun watching right-wing YouTube videos, a new kind of video began appearing in his recommendations. These videos were made by left-wing creators, but they mimicked the aesthetics of right-wing YouTube, down to the combative titles and the mocking use of words like “triggered” and “snowflake.”
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- low_poly_shiba 7y ago
  famous left wing youtubers are people like Hbomberguy (known for helping trans charities) famous right wing youtubers are people like Prisonplanet (white genocide propaganda, Brexit) there's no comparison between the two outside of rise in popularity
  - ralusek 7y ago
    Paul Joseph Watson (prisonplanet) is the most conspiratorial of the anti-left, he works for InfoWars. There are plenty of anti-left (a more apt term, as many are liberal/libertarian) that add quite a bit to the conversation. Karen Straughan, 1791L, Sam Harris, Janice Fiamengo, Brett/Eric Weinstein, sometimes Jordan Peterson, Independent Man, Computing Forever, ShortFatOtaku, Asian Capitalists, among others.
    - low_poly_shiba 7y ago
      sure and there's other tamer lefttube people like Jenny Nicholson, Lindsay Ellis, etc. I was comparing hard to hard. "Hard left" youtube seem to be great people, whereas "hard right" youtube is utter trash. One has to stretch "both sides are bad" to great extremes to pretend that the problem is intractable.
      - coldtea 7y ago
        >I was comparing hard to hard. "Hard left" youtube seem to be great people, whereas "hard right" youtube is utter trash. Or you know, that's a version of "everyone I agree with is good, everyone I disagree with is Hitler".
        low_poly_shiba 7y ago
        who's your go-to left equivalent of Jordan Peterson or PrisonPaul or Crowder? site doesn't let me reply but I can't believe you're seriously saying Chomsky and Zizek are the left equivalents of Crowder and Prisonpaul, lol Let's narrow it down to those two. Who's the left Crowder/Prisonpaul if not Hbomb? And if it's Hbomb, how can you deny he's better than those two?
        coldtea 7y ago
        Equally "bad" you mean (and assuming those are bad)? Cause I don't consider e.g. Jordan Peterson bad, or even really that right. Conservative yes (which is another thing). In terms of classic left/right politics (and not the modern fashion of id politics) I'd say he's more or less a social democrat. That said, for people on the left I follow, I'd mention Slavoj Zizek, Chomsky, Michea, and others (including authors on Counterpunch, NLR, Mother Jones, etc). I like my leftists old school, regarding class, colonization, imperialism, and such, and don't care about the US obsession with identity politics (in fact I dislike it). I don't think the US has had many real leftists since like the 60s, and surely none in the mainstream. >site doesn't let me reply but I can't believe you're seriously saying Chomsky and Zizek are the left equivalents of Crowder and Prisonpaul, lol You should be able to reply, I think it just takes a minute for the link to appear or so. Can always click on the parent comment's date though to go to a reply page iirc. That said, I didn't say "Chomsky and Zizek are the left equivalents of Crowder and Prisonpaul". I said those are some on the left I personally follow. I'm not sure what "equivalent" means here. Equivalent in what? If it's about having polarizing opinions or away-of-centre opinions on things, well, all those mentioned have those. >Let's narrow it down to those two. Who's the left Crowder/Prisonpaul if not Hbomb? And if it's Hbomb, how can you deny he's better than those two? I wasn't sure who Hbomb is, so I paid a visit. Seems like someone making dumb jokes from what (in the US) passes for a leftist view. I haven't seen much Crowder (only heard about him through the recent fuss) but this Hbomb is not in my eyes any better than Prisonpaul. If anything, he's more grating. (Also, better in what? Better person? Better opinions? More agreeable? More hipster-likable views?)
- minimaxir 7y ago
  Comment from the author (which is getting ratioed): > Hey, writer here. This collage is just a sample from his viewing history. Some far-right, some not. https://twitter.com/kevinroose/status/1137392725081219073 https://twitter.com/kevinroose/status/1137392725081219073
  - pacala 7y ago
    The choice of the text scrolling over the collage, however, is the author's / NYT's doing. > Caleb Cain was a college dropout looking for direction. He turned to YouTube. > Soon, he was pulled into a far-right universe, watching thousands of videos filled with conspiracy theories, misogyny and racism. > I was brainwashed If some, in the admission of the writer, are not far right / [insert some other libelous term here], is it fair to label them all as such?
    - mistermann 7y ago
      All's fair in love and meme wars, which is what this is. At the end of the day, I think the implicit "one side is using facts and truth, the other is using lies and deceit" narrative is effective, but it also has weakness in that it is a bit lacking in the truth department. I'm not liking the direction these debates are going though.
- gjsman-1000 7y ago
  I'm not a fan of all of those YouTubers, but quite a few of the big ones (i.e. Crowder, Shapiro, Peterson) detest racism, and have openly and many times said that they do not support white supremacy and think Nazis are racist morons. Someone asked why neo-Nazis were attending one of their conferences, and the speaker (Peterson) said he had no idea and wanted them to leave for being idiots. Doesn't change the fact that NYT still calls them "white supremacist supporting." I think the problem here is that they support some policies which white supremacists, as a group, also like supporting. Just because two groups can agree on something doesn't mean those groups are allies. Also, "white supremacist" is a great slam against someone you don't like regardless as to if it is true.
  - 0815test 7y ago
    > but quite a few of the big ones (i.e. Crowder, Shapiro, Peterson) detest racism ... Yes, but the YT recommendation algorithm doesn't know that, and even if it could know it wouldn't care. It's enough to watch a few IDW (Intellectual Dark Web) videos, the system will assume that you want racist, far-right, etc. content and that's what will pop up in your recommendations and "Up Next" video plays. That's an entirely programmatically-generated "pathway" into the alt-right rabbit hole; it has nothing to do with who the IDW themselves would want to associate with.
    - gjsman-1000 7y ago
      Agreed. However, at the same time, this happens with almost _everything_ on YouTube. I bet you 5 Fake Bitcoins that if you watch a lot of Left-leaning videos from NYT, Vox, and others, that you will be in your own rabbit hole.
      - djflutt3rshy 7y ago
        As a left leaning person, absolutely! I viewed a few of hbomberguy's tamer videos, next thing you know I've got videos with commenters suggesting we bust out the guillotines. But hey, thats what gets the eyeballs and the ad revenue flowing!
    - deleted 7y ago
- CM30 7y ago
  Potentially legally risky as well, given a known attorney/law firm critiqued it on Twitter and said it was totally unacceptable: https://twitter.com/morrison/status/1137401059419217921?s=11 https://twitter.com/morrison/status/1137401059419217921?s=11

golergka 7y ago

It's also a very misleading and dishonest journalism, as many of YouTubers displayed in the final stages have nothing to do with the alt-right.

dannyr 7y ago
I read the article and it mentioned that in the past year YouTube started recommending videos from left-leaning creators. "IN 2018, nearly four years after Mr. Cain had begun watching right-wing YouTube videos, a new kind of video began appearing in his recommendations. These videos were made by left-wing creators, but they mimicked the aesthetics of right-wing YouTube, down to the combative titles and the mocking use of words like “triggered” and “snowflake.”
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
low_poly_shiba 7y ago
famous left wing youtubers are people like Hbomberguy (known for helping trans charities) famous right wing youtubers are people like Prisonplanet (white genocide propaganda, Brexit) there's no comparison between the two outside of rise in popularity
- ralusek 7y ago
  Paul Joseph Watson (prisonplanet) is the most conspiratorial of the anti-left, he works for InfoWars. There are plenty of anti-left (a more apt term, as many are liberal/libertarian) that add quite a bit to the conversation. Karen Straughan, 1791L, Sam Harris, Janice Fiamengo, Brett/Eric Weinstein, sometimes Jordan Peterson, Independent Man, Computing Forever, ShortFatOtaku, Asian Capitalists, among others.
  - low_poly_shiba 7y ago
    sure and there's other tamer lefttube people like Jenny Nicholson, Lindsay Ellis, etc. I was comparing hard to hard. "Hard left" youtube seem to be great people, whereas "hard right" youtube is utter trash. One has to stretch "both sides are bad" to great extremes to pretend that the problem is intractable.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >I was comparing hard to hard. "Hard left" youtube seem to be great people, whereas "hard right" youtube is utter trash. Or you know, that's a version of "everyone I agree with is good, everyone I disagree with is Hitler".
      - low_poly_shiba 7y ago
        who's your go-to left equivalent of Jordan Peterson or PrisonPaul or Crowder? site doesn't let me reply but I can't believe you're seriously saying Chomsky and Zizek are the left equivalents of Crowder and Prisonpaul, lol Let's narrow it down to those two. Who's the left Crowder/Prisonpaul if not Hbomb? And if it's Hbomb, how can you deny he's better than those two?
        coldtea 7y ago
        Equally "bad" you mean (and assuming those are bad)? Cause I don't consider e.g. Jordan Peterson bad, or even really that right. Conservative yes (which is another thing). In terms of classic left/right politics (and not the modern fashion of id politics) I'd say he's more or less a social democrat. That said, for people on the left I follow, I'd mention Slavoj Zizek, Chomsky, Michea, and others (including authors on Counterpunch, NLR, Mother Jones, etc). I like my leftists old school, regarding class, colonization, imperialism, and such, and don't care about the US obsession with identity politics (in fact I dislike it). I don't think the US has had many real leftists since like the 60s, and surely none in the mainstream. >site doesn't let me reply but I can't believe you're seriously saying Chomsky and Zizek are the left equivalents of Crowder and Prisonpaul, lol You should be able to reply, I think it just takes a minute for the link to appear or so. Can always click on the parent comment's date though to go to a reply page iirc. That said, I didn't say "Chomsky and Zizek are the left equivalents of Crowder and Prisonpaul". I said those are some on the left I personally follow. I'm not sure what "equivalent" means here. Equivalent in what? If it's about having polarizing opinions or away-of-centre opinions on things, well, all those mentioned have those. >Let's narrow it down to those two. Who's the left Crowder/Prisonpaul if not Hbomb? And if it's Hbomb, how can you deny he's better than those two? I wasn't sure who Hbomb is, so I paid a visit. Seems like someone making dumb jokes from what (in the US) passes for a leftist view. I haven't seen much Crowder (only heard about him through the recent fuss) but this Hbomb is not in my eyes any better than Prisonpaul. If anything, he's more grating. (Also, better in what? Better person? Better opinions? More agreeable? More hipster-likable views?)
minimaxir 7y ago
Comment from the author (which is getting ratioed): > Hey, writer here. This collage is just a sample from his viewing history. Some far-right, some not. https://twitter.com/kevinroose/status/1137392725081219073 https://twitter.com/kevinroose/status/1137392725081219073
- pacala 7y ago
  The choice of the text scrolling over the collage, however, is the author's / NYT's doing. > Caleb Cain was a college dropout looking for direction. He turned to YouTube. > Soon, he was pulled into a far-right universe, watching thousands of videos filled with conspiracy theories, misogyny and racism. > I was brainwashed If some, in the admission of the writer, are not far right / [insert some other libelous term here], is it fair to label them all as such?
  - mistermann 7y ago
    All's fair in love and meme wars, which is what this is. At the end of the day, I think the implicit "one side is using facts and truth, the other is using lies and deceit" narrative is effective, but it also has weakness in that it is a bit lacking in the truth department. I'm not liking the direction these debates are going though.
gjsman-1000 7y ago
I'm not a fan of all of those YouTubers, but quite a few of the big ones (i.e. Crowder, Shapiro, Peterson) detest racism, and have openly and many times said that they do not support white supremacy and think Nazis are racist morons. Someone asked why neo-Nazis were attending one of their conferences, and the speaker (Peterson) said he had no idea and wanted them to leave for being idiots. Doesn't change the fact that NYT still calls them "white supremacist supporting." I think the problem here is that they support some policies which white supremacists, as a group, also like supporting. Just because two groups can agree on something doesn't mean those groups are allies. Also, "white supremacist" is a great slam against someone you don't like regardless as to if it is true.
- 0815test 7y ago
  > but quite a few of the big ones (i.e. Crowder, Shapiro, Peterson) detest racism ... Yes, but the YT recommendation algorithm doesn't know that, and even if it could know it wouldn't care. It's enough to watch a few IDW (Intellectual Dark Web) videos, the system will assume that you want racist, far-right, etc. content and that's what will pop up in your recommendations and "Up Next" video plays. That's an entirely programmatically-generated "pathway" into the alt-right rabbit hole; it has nothing to do with who the IDW themselves would want to associate with.
  - gjsman-1000 7y ago
    Agreed. However, at the same time, this happens with almost _everything_ on YouTube. I bet you 5 Fake Bitcoins that if you watch a lot of Left-leaning videos from NYT, Vox, and others, that you will be in your own rabbit hole.
    - djflutt3rshy 7y ago
      As a left leaning person, absolutely! I viewed a few of hbomberguy's tamer videos, next thing you know I've got videos with commenters suggesting we bust out the guillotines. But hey, thats what gets the eyeballs and the ad revenue flowing!
  - deleted 7y ago
CM30 7y ago
Potentially legally risky as well, given a known attorney/law firm critiqued it on Twitter and said it was totally unacceptable: https://twitter.com/morrison/status/1137401059419217921?s=11 https://twitter.com/morrison/status/1137401059419217921?s=11