6 ms·

DNA sequences should be viewed differently than other personal data, since they are personal not only for you, but also for your children, grandchildren, siblin

by lokl 7y ago

DNA sequences should be viewed differently than other personal data, since they are personal not only for you, but also for your children, grandchildren, siblings, parents, etc. When you make a decision to share this data, you are making a decision for them, too. The implications might not be the same for your great-great-grandchildren, but who can tell whether the impact will be better or worse? How will it be possible to use the information in the future, when technology, science, law, politics, and social customs might be quite different? We often see complaints about big companies selling their users' personal data, but in this case the decision lies with each individual who shares his DNA sequence. Do you believe it is ethical to share your relatives' personal data without their consent?

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HenryBemis 7y ago
On a similar process I find disturbing that when a friend decides to use WhatsApp and the decide to share their contacts with (f...ing) Facebook, they give them my name, surname, phone number, and who knows what else is in that contact card. They don't ask me, I don't approve that, but still Facebook gets my data. Same applies for Viber, Signal, etc. of course.
- dessant 7y ago
  I agree with you, though Signal does not get access to your contact list, in case anyone is looking for a less user hostile messaging app. https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007061452-Does-Signal-send-my-number-to-my-contacts- https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007061452-Do...
- octorian 7y ago
  Using WhatsApp just shares the raw phone number. None of those other details leave your phone. (Of course sharing /w the Facebook app is probably a completely different story.)
  - albertgoeswoof 7y ago
    It doesn’t matter, you only need a small % of your contacts to leak their contacts to Facebook/WhatsApp and it’s trivial to build a graph of almost everyone you know
endorphone 7y ago
You are leaving a DNA trail in your wake, and it's only private or personal insofar as no one looked at it. But it seems like it's something that we really have no hopes of keeping private over any reasonable timeline into the future.
- hkai 7y ago
  Interesting, did anyone ever try to massively analyze DNA by collecting, I don't know, hairs or used cutlery or other waste that contains DNA?
  - mcculley 7y ago
    This is an inevitable future. Adtech and martech companies already pay for customer data. Why would they not set up ways to gather this data?
    - mr_overalls 7y ago
      The premise of the film Gattaca (1997) is slowly coming true. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177/
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    Shoot! Yes! My partner showed me a story about this recently where a person reconstructed potential faces from DNA collected from discarded cigarette butts, hair, and other items. They used the faces in an art display. I’ll see if I can find it but I’m not confident— Edit: found it easier than I thought: https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/04/tech/innovation/dna-face-sculptures/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/04/tech/innovation/dna-face-scul... This is a privacy matter, I think. It seems haphazard to allow this kind of thing wantonly...
    - DanBC 7y ago
      This? https://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/04/tech/innovation/dna-face-sculptures/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/04/tech/innovation/dna-face-...
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filoleg 7y ago
I agree with you. However, I felt important pointing out that we already have something like that happening, where users consent to share their personal data and in the process share data that isn’t really theirs as well. Just to clarify, i do not think that it is supposed to make sharing data of other people in this way any less bad. Famous example (albeit of a smaller significance, since the data of users shared was public for all their friends) - the whole Facebook/Cambridge Analytica scandal. Users were giving up their data using their survey app, but they ended up sharing the profile info of their friends as well without their permission.
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breck 7y ago
You literally drop your DNA in public everywhere you go. It’d be like walking around dropping copies of your bank statements 24/7 and then saying that they are private. Nearly all of it is a straight clone off the main branch anyway. So I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Source—I do genomics work at a cancer lab.
- gvhst 7y ago
  Right, however in public its a bit more challenging to identify a DNA sample with the identity of its owner. One can get this via a targeted attack, yet this seems in the same spirit of going through someone's trash to find their bank statements.
  - breck 7y ago
    That’s a fair point. Operating a global database that connects someone’s DNA to their identity brings up different issues than just being able to easily sequence someone’s DNA in a “targeted attack”. I think worrying about keeping your DNA private is a fools errand (See oxford nanopore and extrapolate), but discussing what companies can do with these databases is probably a more fruitful effort.

by lokl 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

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HenryBemis 7y ago

On a similar process I find disturbing that when a friend decides to use WhatsApp and the decide to share their contacts with (f...ing) Facebook, they give them my name, surname, phone number, and who knows what else is in that contact card. They don't ask me, I don't approve that, but still Facebook gets my data. Same applies for Viber, Signal, etc. of course.

dessant 7y ago
I agree with you, though Signal does not get access to your contact list, in case anyone is looking for a less user hostile messaging app. https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007061452-Does-Signal-send-my-number-to-my-contacts- https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007061452-Do...
octorian 7y ago
Using WhatsApp just shares the raw phone number. None of those other details leave your phone. (Of course sharing /w the Facebook app is probably a completely different story.)
- albertgoeswoof 7y ago
  It doesn’t matter, you only need a small % of your contacts to leak their contacts to Facebook/WhatsApp and it’s trivial to build a graph of almost everyone you know

endorphone 7y ago

You are leaving a DNA trail in your wake, and it's only private or personal insofar as no one looked at it. But it seems like it's something that we really have no hopes of keeping private over any reasonable timeline into the future.

hkai 7y ago
Interesting, did anyone ever try to massively analyze DNA by collecting, I don't know, hairs or used cutlery or other waste that contains DNA?
- mcculley 7y ago
  This is an inevitable future. Adtech and martech companies already pay for customer data. Why would they not set up ways to gather this data?
  - mr_overalls 7y ago
    The premise of the film Gattaca (1997) is slowly coming true. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177/
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  Shoot! Yes! My partner showed me a story about this recently where a person reconstructed potential faces from DNA collected from discarded cigarette butts, hair, and other items. They used the faces in an art display. I’ll see if I can find it but I’m not confident— Edit: found it easier than I thought: https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/04/tech/innovation/dna-face-sculptures/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/04/tech/innovation/dna-face-scul... This is a privacy matter, I think. It seems haphazard to allow this kind of thing wantonly...
  - DanBC 7y ago
    This? https://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/04/tech/innovation/dna-face-sculptures/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/04/tech/innovation/dna-face-...

deleted 7y ago

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filoleg 7y ago

I agree with you. However, I felt important pointing out that we already have something like that happening, where users consent to share their personal data and in the process share data that isn’t really theirs as well. Just to clarify, i do not think that it is supposed to make sharing data of other people in this way any less bad. Famous example (albeit of a smaller significance, since the data of users shared was public for all their friends) - the whole Facebook/Cambridge Analytica scandal. Users were giving up their data using their survey app, but they ended up sharing the profile info of their friends as well without their permission.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

breck 7y ago

You literally drop your DNA in public everywhere you go. It’d be like walking around dropping copies of your bank statements 24/7 and then saying that they are private. Nearly all of it is a straight clone off the main branch anyway. So I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Source—I do genomics work at a cancer lab.

gvhst 7y ago
Right, however in public its a bit more challenging to identify a DNA sample with the identity of its owner. One can get this via a targeted attack, yet this seems in the same spirit of going through someone's trash to find their bank statements.
- breck 7y ago
  That’s a fair point. Operating a global database that connects someone’s DNA to their identity brings up different issues than just being able to easily sequence someone’s DNA in a “targeted attack”. I think worrying about keeping your DNA private is a fools errand (See oxford nanopore and extrapolate), but discussing what companies can do with these databases is probably a more fruitful effort.