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> Dale still persisted in slandering her FWIW, Dale finally apologized: https://twitter.com/dalepd/status/927712935987707904 https://twitter.com/dalepd/status

> Dale still persisted in slandering her FWIW, Dale finally apologized: https://twitter.com/dalepd/status/927712935987707904 https://twitter.com/dalepd/status/927712935987707904

barry-cotter 7y ago
Fuck him, fuck Vice Media and fuck Sarah Jeong. Never forgive, never forget.
- skrebbel 7y ago
  > Never forgive, never forget. Most of the pain in the world is caused by this attitude.
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    Tell RealSexyCyborg that as she watches people who conspired to destroy her livelihood enjoy their comfortable lives.
    - stareatgoats 7y ago
      Agree that Dale is to some extent complicit in Wus woes, but Naomi herself considers that case closed and settled. The real assholes are IMO the Vice people, and Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256 https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256
      - SexyCyborg 7y ago
        >The real assholes are IMO the Vice people, and Patreon: There's a whole untold story- but Make contacted Vice, which was what caused all the subsequent events.
        stareatgoats 7y ago
        Okay, interesting! Your story has been an amazing and educational one beginning to end, one I can identify with as far as the cross-cultural aspects are concerned. Sorry for what you have been put through. Kudos to you for your amazing skills, energy and creativity! I hope (or, fairly confident) you will persevere in spite it all. Looking forward to hearing the whole story some day.
        SexyCyborg 7y ago
        >Your story has been an amazing and educational one beginning to end, one I can identify with as far as the cross-cultural aspects are concerned. Sorry for what you have been put through. Kudos to you for your amazing skills, energy and creativity! I hope (or, fairly confident) you will persevere in spite it all. Thank you!
    - skrebbel 7y ago
      I find the idea that people who make mistakes don't deserve "comfortable lives" repulsive. I believe that much of the world's pain is caused by it. If people everywhere tried just a bit harder to forgive and forget, the world really would be a better place. Entire wars would be prevented. It looks to me that these people (this Dale figure, the Vice reporters etc) aren't impossible dickheads who belong in jail, but well-meaning people who made (grave) errors in judgment. They deserve "comfortable lives" just like everybody else. I bet you've made grave errors in judgment once or twice. I sure have. (little sidenote: I don't have a strong opinion about this particular debate. I didn't dive deep, I don't know who the key players are. It seems to me that Naomi Wu is obviously the victim here, so I'm on "your side"- but that doesn't mean I agree with your hardline approach)
      - 0815test 7y ago
        > I find the idea that people who make mistakes don't deserve "comfortable lives" repulsive. Some people don't share your attitudes, unfortunately. You can see this since they tried to make Wu's life as uncomfortable as possible, with no qualms whatsoever, all out of extremely fuzzy, purported "mistakes" on her part. Yes, Dale did finally issue a clear and complete apology so that issue was resolved to everyone's satisfaction, but let's be clear on how extremely rare that attitude is. Most conflicts tend to simmer because those who are in a losing position will never want to admit to themselves that they're losers, and change their ways - instead, they will keep behaving as "impossible dickheads", entirely by their own choice. Being naïve about this doesn't prevent or resolve conflict; it encourages more conflict since everyone sees how weak your reaction is to being bullied.
        skrebbel 7y ago
        Why do you think that if I say that "never forgive, never forget" is a harmful attitude, I only mean it towards the people who share your opinion about the issue? I think it's a harmful attitude all across the board, on all "sides" of every conflict. I strongly disagree that trying to de-escalate emotions "encourages more conflict". It's perfectly possible, and much more constructive, to write that you think this Dale is a dickhead without "never forgive" and without denying him a "comfortable life". Bullies are not going to stop bullying because someone on the internet thinks they don't deserve a comfortable life. At the same time, perpetrating the idea that mistakes ought to haunt people for the rest of their lives, that forgiveness is a weakness, is actively harmful and makes culture more hateful. Plus, you're making a discussion more inflammatory to absolutely nobody's benefit.
  - 0815test 7y ago
    Come on, even Dale had to acknowledge that his "apology" was totally fake and inadequate, and issue a more convincing one later: https://makezine.com/2017/11/19/apology-to-naomi-wu/ https://makezine.com/2017/11/19/apology-to-naomi-wu/ If that tweet and article was the only thing you had to go on, "do not forgive, do not forget" is a totally sensible attitude.
- dang 7y ago
  Vandalizing HN by starting flamewars like this will get you banned here, regardless of what the flames are about. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> Dale still persisted in slandering her FWIW, Dale finally apologized: https://twitter.com/dalepd/status/927712935987707904 https://twitter.com/dalepd/status/927712935987707904

barry-cotter 7y ago

Fuck him, fuck Vice Media and fuck Sarah Jeong. Never forgive, never forget.

skrebbel 7y ago
> Never forgive, never forget. Most of the pain in the world is caused by this attitude.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  Tell RealSexyCyborg that as she watches people who conspired to destroy her livelihood enjoy their comfortable lives.
  - stareatgoats 7y ago
    Agree that Dale is to some extent complicit in Wus woes, but Naomi herself considers that case closed and settled. The real assholes are IMO the Vice people, and Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256 https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256
    - SexyCyborg 7y ago
      >The real assholes are IMO the Vice people, and Patreon: There's a whole untold story- but Make contacted Vice, which was what caused all the subsequent events.
      - stareatgoats 7y ago
        Okay, interesting! Your story has been an amazing and educational one beginning to end, one I can identify with as far as the cross-cultural aspects are concerned. Sorry for what you have been put through. Kudos to you for your amazing skills, energy and creativity! I hope (or, fairly confident) you will persevere in spite it all. Looking forward to hearing the whole story some day.
        SexyCyborg 7y ago
        >Your story has been an amazing and educational one beginning to end, one I can identify with as far as the cross-cultural aspects are concerned. Sorry for what you have been put through. Kudos to you for your amazing skills, energy and creativity! I hope (or, fairly confident) you will persevere in spite it all. Thank you!
  - skrebbel 7y ago
    I find the idea that people who make mistakes don't deserve "comfortable lives" repulsive. I believe that much of the world's pain is caused by it. If people everywhere tried just a bit harder to forgive and forget, the world really would be a better place. Entire wars would be prevented. It looks to me that these people (this Dale figure, the Vice reporters etc) aren't impossible dickheads who belong in jail, but well-meaning people who made (grave) errors in judgment. They deserve "comfortable lives" just like everybody else. I bet you've made grave errors in judgment once or twice. I sure have. (little sidenote: I don't have a strong opinion about this particular debate. I didn't dive deep, I don't know who the key players are. It seems to me that Naomi Wu is obviously the victim here, so I'm on "your side"- but that doesn't mean I agree with your hardline approach)
    - 0815test 7y ago
      > I find the idea that people who make mistakes don't deserve "comfortable lives" repulsive. Some people don't share your attitudes, unfortunately. You can see this since they tried to make Wu's life as uncomfortable as possible, with no qualms whatsoever, all out of extremely fuzzy, purported "mistakes" on her part. Yes, Dale did finally issue a clear and complete apology so that issue was resolved to everyone's satisfaction, but let's be clear on how extremely rare that attitude is. Most conflicts tend to simmer because those who are in a losing position will never want to admit to themselves that they're losers, and change their ways - instead, they will keep behaving as "impossible dickheads", entirely by their own choice. Being naïve about this doesn't prevent or resolve conflict; it encourages more conflict since everyone sees how weak your reaction is to being bullied.
      - skrebbel 7y ago
        Why do you think that if I say that "never forgive, never forget" is a harmful attitude, I only mean it towards the people who share your opinion about the issue? I think it's a harmful attitude all across the board, on all "sides" of every conflict. I strongly disagree that trying to de-escalate emotions "encourages more conflict". It's perfectly possible, and much more constructive, to write that you think this Dale is a dickhead without "never forgive" and without denying him a "comfortable life". Bullies are not going to stop bullying because someone on the internet thinks they don't deserve a comfortable life. At the same time, perpetrating the idea that mistakes ought to haunt people for the rest of their lives, that forgiveness is a weakness, is actively harmful and makes culture more hateful. Plus, you're making a discussion more inflammatory to absolutely nobody's benefit.
- 0815test 7y ago
  Come on, even Dale had to acknowledge that his "apology" was totally fake and inadequate, and issue a more convincing one later: https://makezine.com/2017/11/19/apology-to-naomi-wu/ https://makezine.com/2017/11/19/apology-to-naomi-wu/ If that tweet and article was the only thing you had to go on, "do not forgive, do not forget" is a totally sensible attitude.
dang 7y ago
Vandalizing HN by starting flamewars like this will get you banned here, regardless of what the flames are about. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html