5 ms·

I was a Make magazine subscriber since the second year and gave several gift subscriptions. I contributed a couple of small (unpaid) pieces to the magazine, and

I was a Make magazine subscriber since the second year and gave several gift subscriptions. I contributed a couple of small (unpaid) pieces to the magazine, and was an exhibitor (also unpaid) multiple times at the NYC Maker Faire. I thoroughly enjoyed the Maker Faire set-up days and thought they made exhibiting worthwhile. It was like having a back-stage pass to the Oscars of Makerdom - all the stars were there and happy to talk shop. I knew I was creating free content for them that they were profiting from but thought I was getting a fair deal. My subscription lapsed just about every year for some glitch or another and they were unable to convert any of the gift subscriptions which should have been very easy sales. My opinion about supporting Make Media changed after the RealSexyCyborg incident in the winter of 2017: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kassycho/a-male-ceo-has-apologized-after-saying-that-this-female https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kassycho/a-male-ceo-has... Bunnie Haung (who I met at a Maker Faire set-up day) vouched for her and Dale still persisted in slandering her. I let my subscription lapse and quit going to the NYC Maker Faire. 2017 was the Maker Faire highest attendance and has been declining since then.

stareatgoats 7y ago
> Dale still persisted in slandering her FWIW, Dale finally apologized: https://twitter.com/dalepd/status/927712935987707904 https://twitter.com/dalepd/status/927712935987707904
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  Fuck him, fuck Vice Media and fuck Sarah Jeong. Never forgive, never forget.
  - skrebbel 7y ago
    > Never forgive, never forget. Most of the pain in the world is caused by this attitude.
    - barry-cotter 7y ago
      Tell RealSexyCyborg that as she watches people who conspired to destroy her livelihood enjoy their comfortable lives.
      - stareatgoats 7y ago
        Agree that Dale is to some extent complicit in Wus woes, but Naomi herself considers that case closed and settled. The real assholes are IMO the Vice people, and Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256 https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256
        SexyCyborg 7y ago
        >The real assholes are IMO the Vice people, and Patreon: There's a whole untold story- but Make contacted Vice, which was what caused all the subsequent events.
        stareatgoats 7y ago
        Okay, interesting! Your story has been an amazing and educational one beginning to end, one I can identify with as far as the cross-cultural aspects are concerned. Sorry for what you have been put through. Kudos to you for your amazing skills, energy and creativity! I hope (or, fairly confident) you will persevere in spite it all. Looking forward to hearing the whole story some day.
        SexyCyborg 7y ago
        >Your story has been an amazing and educational one beginning to end, one I can identify with as far as the cross-cultural aspects are concerned. Sorry for what you have been put through. Kudos to you for your amazing skills, energy and creativity! I hope (or, fairly confident) you will persevere in spite it all. Thank you!
      - skrebbel 7y ago
  - dang 7y ago
    Vandalizing HN by starting flamewars like this will get you banned here, regardless of what the flames are about. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
ssorc 7y ago
> My subscription lapsed just about every year for some glitch or another This exactly -- of all the magazines I subscribe to, Make has (had?) the worst subscription department by far. It was surprising given how important a subscriber base is.
SexyCyborg 7y ago
>My opinion about supporting Make Media changed after the RealSexyCyborg incident in the winter of 2017: Thanks, the damage was and is pretty bad- and long-lasting. But, "be like water" and all that. I'm slowly pivoting to hardware development. Studying welding and CNC operations now also. But- as far as business dealings with Make my one direct experience, in an area I'm qualified to talk about is that their China strategy was simply awful. Just textbook how to fail in China. They chose a Chinese partner that did not understand Maker culture, was incentivized to not support it (even curtail it), and let them run the Make brand into the ground during a time when billions of RMB was going into Maker initiatives: https://theasiadialogue.com/2016/05/26/makerspaces-for-the-people-chinas-approach-to-cultivating-an-entrepreneurial-mindset/ https://theasiadialogue.com/2016/05/26/makerspaces-for-the-p... Not just government grants, but parents willing to pay generously for after-school hands-on activities that cultivate creativity. Lego absolutely nailed it, they were and are the model for Make to follow: https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2188280/brick-brick-store-store-danish-toymaker-lego-builds-its-empire https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2188280/bric... I told Make all this last year. Even with all the shit they pulled- I want Chinese kids to have something better than factory jobs making shanzhai shit. I will talk to Make or anyone else if it means more creativity here. I am a true believer- I would make a lot more doing literally anything else if I wasn't. I offered to get Make legal representation, connect them with the investors that were asking for an introduction- just at least hear them out. Nope. Patronizing and dismissive. They were convinced their current Chinese partner had "lots of guanxi" and had it all figured out. It was a huge, huge missed opportunity for absolutely no reason at the absolute height of demand. Now, of course, the Maker market has cooled off: http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003171/made-in-china-the-boom-and-bust-of-makerspaces http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003171/made-in-china-the-boom... and things would be much harder. Make seems to make very bad business decisions, driven by enforcing an in-house ideology and social hierarchy that really has no relation to the Hacker ethic at the heart of the Maker movement.
- erk__ 7y ago
  There are few companies I look up to as much as LEGO, they had a bad financial time in the 0's, where they had to sadly sell off the parks. But now they have really found what makes them special again. Including expanding to new markets like China. It came as a pretty big surprise for me that they got some Lepin factories closed down and raided by the Chinese authorities. They are as you say a good example of a company that knows how to work in China.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

stareatgoats 7y ago

> Dale still persisted in slandering her FWIW, Dale finally apologized: https://twitter.com/dalepd/status/927712935987707904 https://twitter.com/dalepd/status/927712935987707904

barry-cotter 7y ago
Fuck him, fuck Vice Media and fuck Sarah Jeong. Never forgive, never forget.
- skrebbel 7y ago
  > Never forgive, never forget. Most of the pain in the world is caused by this attitude.
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    Tell RealSexyCyborg that as she watches people who conspired to destroy her livelihood enjoy their comfortable lives.
    - stareatgoats 7y ago
      Agree that Dale is to some extent complicit in Wus woes, but Naomi herself considers that case closed and settled. The real assholes are IMO the Vice people, and Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256 https://www.patreon.com/posts/vice-vs-sexy-how-18216256
      - SexyCyborg 7y ago
        >The real assholes are IMO the Vice people, and Patreon: There's a whole untold story- but Make contacted Vice, which was what caused all the subsequent events.
        stareatgoats 7y ago
        Okay, interesting! Your story has been an amazing and educational one beginning to end, one I can identify with as far as the cross-cultural aspects are concerned. Sorry for what you have been put through. Kudos to you for your amazing skills, energy and creativity! I hope (or, fairly confident) you will persevere in spite it all. Looking forward to hearing the whole story some day.
        SexyCyborg 7y ago
        >Your story has been an amazing and educational one beginning to end, one I can identify with as far as the cross-cultural aspects are concerned. Sorry for what you have been put through. Kudos to you for your amazing skills, energy and creativity! I hope (or, fairly confident) you will persevere in spite it all. Thank you!
    - skrebbel 7y ago
- dang 7y ago
  Vandalizing HN by starting flamewars like this will get you banned here, regardless of what the flames are about. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

ssorc 7y ago

> My subscription lapsed just about every year for some glitch or another This exactly -- of all the magazines I subscribe to, Make has (had?) the worst subscription department by far. It was surprising given how important a subscriber base is.

SexyCyborg 7y ago

>My opinion about supporting Make Media changed after the RealSexyCyborg incident in the winter of 2017: Thanks, the damage was and is pretty bad- and long-lasting. But, "be like water" and all that. I'm slowly pivoting to hardware development. Studying welding and CNC operations now also. But- as far as business dealings with Make my one direct experience, in an area I'm qualified to talk about is that their China strategy was simply awful. Just textbook how to fail in China. They chose a Chinese partner that did not understand Maker culture, was incentivized to not support it (even curtail it), and let them run the Make brand into the ground during a time when billions of RMB was going into Maker initiatives: https://theasiadialogue.com/2016/05/26/makerspaces-for-the-people-chinas-approach-to-cultivating-an-entrepreneurial-mindset/ https://theasiadialogue.com/2016/05/26/makerspaces-for-the-p... Not just government grants, but parents willing to pay generously for after-school hands-on activities that cultivate creativity. Lego absolutely nailed it, they were and are the model for Make to follow: https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2188280/brick-brick-store-store-danish-toymaker-lego-builds-its-empire https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2188280/bric... I told Make all this last year. Even with all the shit they pulled- I want Chinese kids to have something better than factory jobs making shanzhai shit. I will talk to Make or anyone else if it means more creativity here. I am a true believer- I would make a lot more doing literally anything else if I wasn't. I offered to get Make legal representation, connect them with the investors that were asking for an introduction- just at least hear them out. Nope. Patronizing and dismissive. They were convinced their current Chinese partner had "lots of guanxi" and had it all figured out. It was a huge, huge missed opportunity for absolutely no reason at the absolute height of demand. Now, of course, the Maker market has cooled off: http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003171/made-in-china-the-boom-and-bust-of-makerspaces http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003171/made-in-china-the-boom... and things would be much harder. Make seems to make very bad business decisions, driven by enforcing an in-house ideology and social hierarchy that really has no relation to the Hacker ethic at the heart of the Maker movement.

erk__ 7y ago
There are few companies I look up to as much as LEGO, they had a bad financial time in the 0's, where they had to sadly sell off the parks. But now they have really found what makes them special again. Including expanding to new markets like China. It came as a pretty big surprise for me that they got some Lepin factories closed down and raided by the Chinese authorities. They are as you say a good example of a company that knows how to work in China.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]