7 ms·

One of the many reasons I will not buy Apple. You're buying the brand, the name, not actual quality. I dont know what the exact percent is, but you're paying a

One of the many reasons I will not buy Apple. You're buying the brand, the name, not actual quality. I dont know what the exact percent is, but you're paying a significant markup on hardware for Apple vs, say a Dell, for the same hardware. Yeah, OS X is BSD based, but Dell will sell you the equivalent hardware for about half the price and guarantee it works with Linux (with support). I'm not a Dell fan, despite most of my prior purchases being Dell, but they dont do an insane markup on Linux installs. Tangent: I've also seen devs work on Macs have their code fail when dployed because they assume OS X is nix and Linux is nix not recognizong that by default, the MacFS is case insensitive, like Windows, but Linux is case sensitive by default.

scarface74 7y ago
So Apple has been surviving on brand only for 40+ years? Anecdotally: I am looking at a 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 with 256GB SSD and 16GB of RAM for $2099. The only reputable company that I can find that sells a 5K display is LG and it’s $1300 by itself. If I try to find an equivalent price Dell it doesn’t cost any less.
- mantap 7y ago
  If a regular display breaks, you can replace it. If the display in your iMac breaks, you have to spend $$$ to repair it. And maybe apple will tell you that it can't be repaired. All-in-ones are fine as low end machines but I would never buy a premium one.
  - spectramax 7y ago
    How often do you break your display? Are you carrying around your iMac to places? This is a poor argument against something that will just sit on your desk without moving it for months if not years.
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      Leaving it motionless on your desk reduces the risk, but you're still one relatively minor mistake from a broken display. If you're unlucky enough to have that happen, Apple products cost much more to repair. Plus, all of the design related breaks mentioned in the article.
      - spectramax 7y ago
        I still find it absolutely ridiculous and extremely unlikely, something that you shouldn’t have to account for. I can understand breaking an iPhone screen since you carry with you at all times. It is like comparing and shopping for a car based on whether it will accidentally catch fire. Unlikely and there more things to worry about than breaking your monitor screen.
        boomboomsubban 7y ago
        It would still be possible for you to break your screen through one minor accident. If you rely on your computer, the possible emergency repair costs should be considered before purchase, even if it's unlikely.
        scarface74 7y ago
        How many computer geeks don’t have at least one spare computer around? For me, all my development is cross platform. If push came to shove, I would setup a VM on AWS and use the Workspaces client for my iPad. Of course if you’re doing iOS/Mac development the situation is different.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    So if my regular 5K LG display breaks and it can’t be fixed I am out of $1300. If my iMac with a 5K display breaks and Apple can’t fix it. I’m out of $2100. But, Apple usually will offer (non free) repairs for 7 years after a product has been discontinued. But that still didn’t answer the question, where can you spec out a similar PC much cheaper?
    - shearskill 7y ago
      If you really want to try - the site https://pcpartpicker.com/ https://pcpartpicker.com/ is pretty easy to use for specs.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        The original poster said you were paying a “significant markup” for Apple computers and I specifically mentioned the $2100 iMac Pro - 16Gb 6 Core i5 with a 256GB SSD. Seeing the monitor by itself would be $1300. That leaves an $800 budget for an equivalent computer. So define “significant” and I’m Not building a computer myself like it’s the 90s flipping through Computer Shopper.
        panpanna 7y ago
        > I'm Not building a computer myself like it’s the 90s flipping through Computer Shopper. Maybe off topic, but... What's wrong with researching the market and making more edcudated purchases?
        scarface74 7y ago
        If something goes wrong with the Mac hardware, I lug it into an Apple Store and pluck it down on the Genius Bar. If something goes wrong with the FrankenPC not so much.
        rplst8 7y ago
        You can build a lot of PC for $800.
- mappu 7y ago
  5K is a price outlier. LG Display are the only panel manufacturer, and they appeared in very few retail products. It just didn't become an industry standard size (8K has a better chance). You can buy a 4K screen with the same pixel density for under 300USD, from a well-known brand. You can buy four of those for less than that single 5K display. So I would suggest dual 4K.
  - spectramax 7y ago
    Not even close. Sub $300 4k displays are TN panels, or cheap IPS panels with sRGB color gamut, horrible viewing angles, poor calibration, contrast ratio, etc. If you want to compare, compare it with something like Dell UP2718Q which costs a whopping $1500.
    - panpanna 7y ago
      I think a better question is how many need the perfect monitor and how many could do with these "horrible" IPs panel. I am not a graphic designer, I don't really need the best of the best. But what percentage of the market do??
      - scarface74 7y ago
        There is a difference between not “needing” expensive hardware and saying the hardware is overpriced compared to the competition. If you haven’t noticed, Apple doesn’t sell low end products. You’re not going to find a Mac with an “Intel® Pentium® Gold Processor G5400” with 4GB OF RAM for $349.
        panpanna 7y ago
        What Im saying is that this is a very niche market. Other companies are barely present here. It's the same with Microsofts 40" Surface machines. If you let that define "The workstation" then no one has a real alternative to that.
        7y ago
ksec 7y ago
>I dont know what the exact percent is, but you're paying a significant markup on hardware for Apple vs, say a Dell, for the same hardware. Do we have to have this even on HN? People are paying significant markup on Cars for BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Bently. You could buy a Car from Toyota or Kia with Same Horsepower. The thing is they are NOT the same. They never was. I find this both fascinating and annoying how people can price something to zero and immediately think it offer no value to others while simultaneously think they deserve better salary or paid. Apple's products still deliver Better Build Quality, Better finishing, Better Trackpad ( I hate the new enlarged size, but still one of the best trackpad out there ) better software integration. And if anyone wants to ask about Mac Pro price, try spec one out with Dell or HP Workstation and see how they compare. Apple isn't too far off. The whole Workstation market operating on this margin, I have no idea why other they charge this because they can. But Apple's Mac Pro is quite competitive in its pricing. If all you are looking for is a prosumer, upgradable, Desktop Mac, the Mac Pro isn't for you.
- nikofeyn 7y ago
  > People are paying significant markup on Cars for BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Bently. You could buy a Car from Toyota or Kia with Same Horsepower. The thing is they are NOT the same. They never was. this is kind of an interesting comment. especially since you mentioned bmw. with bmw, you literally are buying a brand. i know at least two motorcycle dealers that stopped carrying bmw because bmw required very specific, and very expensive, signage, paint scheme, flooring, etc. to just be a bmw dealer, even if the dealer carried other motorcycle brands (which were typically high-end italian brands). the new kia stinger performance destroys the equivalent bmw car, at a significant fraction of the price. not to mention the stinger looks better (subjective) and has insane fit and finish. https://youtu.be/sPD1joDOlLo https://youtu.be/sPD1joDOlLo my kia optima has a better fit and finish and leather than any tesla i have been in. with those companies, you are buying a brand more than anything. > Apple's products still deliver Better Build Quality, Better finishing, Better Trackpad ( I hate the new enlarged size, but still one of the best trackpad out there ) better software integration. every apple product i have purchased has quit working. my iPad air stopped after just two years of babied operation. it wouldn’t even turn on or charge. apple wanted $300 to “repair” it after claiming it wasn’t a battery issue. my macbook pro’s wifi card stopped after just five years, and many keys barely work due to key failure. the bluetooth never worked with speakers (a common and well documented issue). the chassis would shock me in certain scenarios (another well documented and known issue by users). again, it was babied. my macbook before that required three unsuccessful replacements of the dvd drive before they replaced the entire macbook. my brother’s iphone 7s plus stopped the day after the warranty ended. apple did nothing. another friend’s iPhone 6s plus would just barely work, less than two years in, even after a battery replacement by apple. and better software integration? not even close. iOS has been a travesty on the iPad in terms of integration. (just try to use multiple audio, music apps and see.) hardly anything about apple’s software just works anymore. i constantly had issues with audio software breaking after basically forced os upgrades.

scarface74 7y ago

So Apple has been surviving on brand only for 40+ years? Anecdotally: I am looking at a 5K iMac - 6 Core I5 with 256GB SSD and 16GB of RAM for $2099. The only reputable company that I can find that sells a 5K display is LG and it’s $1300 by itself. If I try to find an equivalent price Dell it doesn’t cost any less.

mantap 7y ago
If a regular display breaks, you can replace it. If the display in your iMac breaks, you have to spend $$$ to repair it. And maybe apple will tell you that it can't be repaired. All-in-ones are fine as low end machines but I would never buy a premium one.
- spectramax 7y ago
  How often do you break your display? Are you carrying around your iMac to places? This is a poor argument against something that will just sit on your desk without moving it for months if not years.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    Leaving it motionless on your desk reduces the risk, but you're still one relatively minor mistake from a broken display. If you're unlucky enough to have that happen, Apple products cost much more to repair. Plus, all of the design related breaks mentioned in the article.
    - spectramax 7y ago
      I still find it absolutely ridiculous and extremely unlikely, something that you shouldn’t have to account for. I can understand breaking an iPhone screen since you carry with you at all times. It is like comparing and shopping for a car based on whether it will accidentally catch fire. Unlikely and there more things to worry about than breaking your monitor screen.
      - boomboomsubban 7y ago
        It would still be possible for you to break your screen through one minor accident. If you rely on your computer, the possible emergency repair costs should be considered before purchase, even if it's unlikely.
        scarface74 7y ago
        How many computer geeks don’t have at least one spare computer around? For me, all my development is cross platform. If push came to shove, I would setup a VM on AWS and use the Workspaces client for my iPad. Of course if you’re doing iOS/Mac development the situation is different.
- scarface74 7y ago
  So if my regular 5K LG display breaks and it can’t be fixed I am out of $1300. If my iMac with a 5K display breaks and Apple can’t fix it. I’m out of $2100. But, Apple usually will offer (non free) repairs for 7 years after a product has been discontinued. But that still didn’t answer the question, where can you spec out a similar PC much cheaper?
  - shearskill 7y ago
    If you really want to try - the site https://pcpartpicker.com/ https://pcpartpicker.com/ is pretty easy to use for specs.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      The original poster said you were paying a “significant markup” for Apple computers and I specifically mentioned the $2100 iMac Pro - 16Gb 6 Core i5 with a 256GB SSD. Seeing the monitor by itself would be $1300. That leaves an $800 budget for an equivalent computer. So define “significant” and I’m Not building a computer myself like it’s the 90s flipping through Computer Shopper.
      - panpanna 7y ago
        > I'm Not building a computer myself like it’s the 90s flipping through Computer Shopper. Maybe off topic, but... What's wrong with researching the market and making more edcudated purchases?
        scarface74 7y ago
        If something goes wrong with the Mac hardware, I lug it into an Apple Store and pluck it down on the Genius Bar. If something goes wrong with the FrankenPC not so much.
      - rplst8 7y ago
        You can build a lot of PC for $800.
mappu 7y ago
5K is a price outlier. LG Display are the only panel manufacturer, and they appeared in very few retail products. It just didn't become an industry standard size (8K has a better chance). You can buy a 4K screen with the same pixel density for under 300USD, from a well-known brand. You can buy four of those for less than that single 5K display. So I would suggest dual 4K.
- spectramax 7y ago
  Not even close. Sub $300 4k displays are TN panels, or cheap IPS panels with sRGB color gamut, horrible viewing angles, poor calibration, contrast ratio, etc. If you want to compare, compare it with something like Dell UP2718Q which costs a whopping $1500.
  - panpanna 7y ago
    I think a better question is how many need the perfect monitor and how many could do with these "horrible" IPs panel. I am not a graphic designer, I don't really need the best of the best. But what percentage of the market do??
    - scarface74 7y ago
      There is a difference between not “needing” expensive hardware and saying the hardware is overpriced compared to the competition. If you haven’t noticed, Apple doesn’t sell low end products. You’re not going to find a Mac with an “Intel® Pentium® Gold Processor G5400” with 4GB OF RAM for $349.
      - panpanna 7y ago
        What Im saying is that this is a very niche market. Other companies are barely present here. It's the same with Microsofts 40" Surface machines. If you let that define "The workstation" then no one has a real alternative to that.
        7y ago

ksec 7y ago

>I dont know what the exact percent is, but you're paying a significant markup on hardware for Apple vs, say a Dell, for the same hardware. Do we have to have this even on HN? People are paying significant markup on Cars for BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Bently. You could buy a Car from Toyota or Kia with Same Horsepower. The thing is they are NOT the same. They never was. I find this both fascinating and annoying how people can price something to zero and immediately think it offer no value to others while simultaneously think they deserve better salary or paid. Apple's products still deliver Better Build Quality, Better finishing, Better Trackpad ( I hate the new enlarged size, but still one of the best trackpad out there ) better software integration. And if anyone wants to ask about Mac Pro price, try spec one out with Dell or HP Workstation and see how they compare. Apple isn't too far off. The whole Workstation market operating on this margin, I have no idea why other they charge this because they can. But Apple's Mac Pro is quite competitive in its pricing. If all you are looking for is a prosumer, upgradable, Desktop Mac, the Mac Pro isn't for you.

nikofeyn 7y ago
> People are paying significant markup on Cars for BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Bently. You could buy a Car from Toyota or Kia with Same Horsepower. The thing is they are NOT the same. They never was. this is kind of an interesting comment. especially since you mentioned bmw. with bmw, you literally are buying a brand. i know at least two motorcycle dealers that stopped carrying bmw because bmw required very specific, and very expensive, signage, paint scheme, flooring, etc. to just be a bmw dealer, even if the dealer carried other motorcycle brands (which were typically high-end italian brands). the new kia stinger performance destroys the equivalent bmw car, at a significant fraction of the price. not to mention the stinger looks better (subjective) and has insane fit and finish. https://youtu.be/sPD1joDOlLo https://youtu.be/sPD1joDOlLo my kia optima has a better fit and finish and leather than any tesla i have been in. with those companies, you are buying a brand more than anything. > Apple's products still deliver Better Build Quality, Better finishing, Better Trackpad ( I hate the new enlarged size, but still one of the best trackpad out there ) better software integration. every apple product i have purchased has quit working. my iPad air stopped after just two years of babied operation. it wouldn’t even turn on or charge. apple wanted $300 to “repair” it after claiming it wasn’t a battery issue. my macbook pro’s wifi card stopped after just five years, and many keys barely work due to key failure. the bluetooth never worked with speakers (a common and well documented issue). the chassis would shock me in certain scenarios (another well documented and known issue by users). again, it was babied. my macbook before that required three unsuccessful replacements of the dvd drive before they replaced the entire macbook. my brother’s iphone 7s plus stopped the day after the warranty ended. apple did nothing. another friend’s iPhone 6s plus would just barely work, less than two years in, even after a battery replacement by apple. and better software integration? not even close. iOS has been a travesty on the iPad in terms of integration. (just try to use multiple audio, music apps and see.) hardly anything about apple’s software just works anymore. i constantly had issues with audio software breaking after basically forced os upgrades.