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Somewhat unrelated, but I really wish we could find a way to not be so reliant on plastics. I try to shop at local farmers markets (I'm willing to pay a small

Somewhat unrelated, but I really wish we could find a way to not be so reliant on plastics. I try to shop at local farmers markets (I'm willing to pay a small premium for knowing exactly where my food is coming from), and even in those cases the guy behind the table reflexively reaches for a plastic bag nearly every time. I always bring my own canvas bags or a backpack, but this has become so culturally ingrained in this country. Is it like this in Europe? I used to poo poo attempts at restricting the use of straws and plastic single-use containers, but now I'm warming up to the idea of outright dropping the ban hammer. These things are gross and they end up in the gutters, and make cities look dirty and poorly managed. We survived without them for a long time. We should figure out a way to do so again.

devoply 7y ago
> I really wish we could find a way to not be so reliant on plastics. Aluminum and glass. We have ways, we only need the political will to mandate their uses and discontinue plastics over a short period of say 10-20 years.
- pcmaffey 7y ago
  Except, there's a special circle of hell for people that knowingly break glass bottles out "in the wild", and I wouldn't want to fill their hands with greater temptation, lest their ignorant souls be damned for eternity.
- layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
  Aluminium cans have a thin plastic layer inside.
- NikolaeVarius 7y ago
  Glass is heavy as shit and makes transportation require more energy.
  - devoply 7y ago
    Yet glass bottles are used everywhere from beer, wine, jellies, jams, etc. etc. Transportation cost is not much of a real issue.
    - userbinator 7y ago
      More due to tradition than anything else.
    - dghughes 7y ago
      The other problem is there is practically no incentive for any company to recycle broken glass. It's heavy, sharp, and there's little demand for it. It takes much more fuel to transport glass containers and once broken it isn't recycled. Although glass is inert so in a landfill it isn't a problem I guess that's an benefit.
    - Bradlinc 7y ago
      I disagree. Shipping for beer can be up to 20% of the cost depending on where it is coming from. One of the main reasons for the increase in cans for American craft brewers is that the freight savings (both in and out of the brewery) increases profits in a significant manor.
userbinator 7y ago
We survived without them for a long time. We also survived for a very long time without refrigerated food, running water, sewer systems, electricity, computers, or sterile medical procedures. Personally, I feel sad about the plastic waste too, but more because it's a waste of a perfectly good material with some very desirable properties. Definitely against a ban, but definitely for more reuse and recycling.
- rewgs 7y ago
  Right, because using a canvas bag instead of a plastic one is just like going without running water.
  - frankbreetz 7y ago
    I agree completely, we could easily get rid of 95% of all plastics and barely cause anyone any inconvenience.
  - DougN7 7y ago
    I think his point is just because we got along without it is not a good reason to abandon something. But yeah, too much waste all around, including plastics
  - userbinator 7y ago
    From a sanitary perspective, yes. Plastic bags are naturally waterproof, have a high strength-to-weight ratio, and don't easily let bacteria grow. If made sturdy enough, like they used to be, they can even be easily cleaned and reused, because dirt does not soak into them. Edit: it's amusing how voracious the anti-plastic brigade is here...
britch 7y ago
I don't think plastics themselves are terrible. Single-use plastics and disposable plastics are more the issue. You can reuse a plastic tupperware container many times. I've had the same plastic water bottle for 10+ years. At the same time you can still litter aluminum cans and smash glass bottles on the street. Getting too focused on the material is not helpful IMO. Societally, we need to shift from disposability and overconsumption. Buy less things. Make them last.
nikanj 7y ago
Sadly, sellers have realized said small premium can extracted from buyers without actually producing food locally https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/farmers-markets-lies-marketplace-1.4306231 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/farmers-markets-lies-market...

devoply 7y ago

> I really wish we could find a way to not be so reliant on plastics. Aluminum and glass. We have ways, we only need the political will to mandate their uses and discontinue plastics over a short period of say 10-20 years.

pcmaffey 7y ago
Except, there's a special circle of hell for people that knowingly break glass bottles out "in the wild", and I wouldn't want to fill their hands with greater temptation, lest their ignorant souls be damned for eternity.
layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
Aluminium cans have a thin plastic layer inside.
NikolaeVarius 7y ago
Glass is heavy as shit and makes transportation require more energy.
- devoply 7y ago
  Yet glass bottles are used everywhere from beer, wine, jellies, jams, etc. etc. Transportation cost is not much of a real issue.
  - userbinator 7y ago
    More due to tradition than anything else.
  - dghughes 7y ago
    The other problem is there is practically no incentive for any company to recycle broken glass. It's heavy, sharp, and there's little demand for it. It takes much more fuel to transport glass containers and once broken it isn't recycled. Although glass is inert so in a landfill it isn't a problem I guess that's an benefit.
  - Bradlinc 7y ago
    I disagree. Shipping for beer can be up to 20% of the cost depending on where it is coming from. One of the main reasons for the increase in cans for American craft brewers is that the freight savings (both in and out of the brewery) increases profits in a significant manor.

userbinator 7y ago

We survived without them for a long time. We also survived for a very long time without refrigerated food, running water, sewer systems, electricity, computers, or sterile medical procedures. Personally, I feel sad about the plastic waste too, but more because it's a waste of a perfectly good material with some very desirable properties. Definitely against a ban, but definitely for more reuse and recycling.

rewgs 7y ago
Right, because using a canvas bag instead of a plastic one is just like going without running water.
- frankbreetz 7y ago
  I agree completely, we could easily get rid of 95% of all plastics and barely cause anyone any inconvenience.
- DougN7 7y ago
  I think his point is just because we got along without it is not a good reason to abandon something. But yeah, too much waste all around, including plastics
- userbinator 7y ago
  From a sanitary perspective, yes. Plastic bags are naturally waterproof, have a high strength-to-weight ratio, and don't easily let bacteria grow. If made sturdy enough, like they used to be, they can even be easily cleaned and reused, because dirt does not soak into them. Edit: it's amusing how voracious the anti-plastic brigade is here...

britch 7y ago

I don't think plastics themselves are terrible. Single-use plastics and disposable plastics are more the issue. You can reuse a plastic tupperware container many times. I've had the same plastic water bottle for 10+ years. At the same time you can still litter aluminum cans and smash glass bottles on the street. Getting too focused on the material is not helpful IMO. Societally, we need to shift from disposability and overconsumption. Buy less things. Make them last.

nikanj 7y ago

Sadly, sellers have realized said small premium can extracted from buyers without actually producing food locally https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/farmers-markets-lies-marketplace-1.4306231 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/farmers-markets-lies-market...