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I use singular they, and used it through tech interviewing and onboarding recently. It was a real challenge trying to figure out whether I wanted to use singula

I use singular they, and used it through tech interviewing and onboarding recently. It was a real challenge trying to figure out whether I wanted to use singular they during the interview. Correcting an interviewer or recruiter when they get your pronouns wrong is scary (on top of the anxiety that is programming job interviews.) Over the years in tech I've found all sorts of different responses to me sharing my pronouns -- mostly people being supportive and a bit forgetful. But also people saying some unnecessarily cruel things, or going out of their way to say, "I DON'T HAVE TO RESPECT THAT!". I've had people tell me, "Yes, fine, I'll acquiesce. But you should know you are wrong and I'm lying to you every time I use singular they." Ok, sure, but we're colleagues and I'm just letting you know that's what I'd prefer? You can also always just use my name. I'm not going to go to HR if you get it wrong, I'm not going to get mad. I might remind you, but the reminder will be gentle and not accusatory. Why so much aggro?

ajkjk 7y ago
How do you feel about "I'll try, but I'll probably screw it up because I'm really not used to this -- sorry in advance." I kinda feel like I have to say something like that as a hedge. It helps prevent some of the anxiety about messing up.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  Totally reasonable to me? Look, at the end of the day we're all humans and many of us were raised with the idea that singular they was weird or wrong. I get it, you've been wired to default to he or she. I have absolutely zero concerns if that sometimes slips and you make a quick correction and move on. What I take note of are the folks who either make no effort to try or folks who deliberately refuse to use singular they for me. Someone who is trying and getting it wrong sometimes is someone who is trying to support me, which I always appreciate. Just don't be obsequious when you get it wrong -- I don't need a 3 minute speech about how you really support trans people and you have a trans member of your extended family and how important it is for you and others to get this right. I've had people spend literally 10 minutes on apologies after one slip up.
avmich 7y ago
> I'm just letting you know that's what I'd prefer Do I always need to accommodate your preferences? Some of them could be hard to, like a frequently used feature of the language over which people have vocal disagreement. If I do, can I ask you about reciprocal favors in language expressions of my choice? For some such preferences may look arbitrary, all underlying reasoning notwithstanding. It's surely not a novel thing to have disagreements over language. How in general they are resolved historically?
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  > Do I always need to accommodate your preferences? Of course not. I might think it's rude or disrespectful if you willfully disregard my preferences, but at no point did I ever insinuate you must take any action. It's no different than requesting a certain nickname or shortened name over one's legal name.
  - neotrope 7y ago
    > It's no different than requesting a certain nickname or shortened name over one's legal name. You're asking to be treated more special than everyone else because you're asking for changes in the way people speak, not simply to remember your name (and people have a hard enough time remembering names). It would be similar if I asked to you to avoid a specific set of commonly-used words around me and if you said them, I would perceive it as disrespect. Eventually, people get used to using the right words, but not without effort.
    - progval 7y ago
      You think your misunderstanding is caused by how Pfhrea formulated their first comment. When they say "I use singular they", they meant they want people use this pronoun to refer to themselves instead of he/she, because (I assume) they are non-binary (ie. neither man or woman). They don't expect you to use the singular "they" other than to refer to them. And that's not too hard to remember, you already have to remember whether everyone else is a "he" or a "she"; allowing for "they" is just an extra bit. And if you do forget it, it's ok, just don't do it on purpose.

ajkjk 7y ago

How do you feel about "I'll try, but I'll probably screw it up because I'm really not used to this -- sorry in advance." I kinda feel like I have to say something like that as a hedge. It helps prevent some of the anxiety about messing up.

Pfhreak 7y ago
Totally reasonable to me? Look, at the end of the day we're all humans and many of us were raised with the idea that singular they was weird or wrong. I get it, you've been wired to default to he or she. I have absolutely zero concerns if that sometimes slips and you make a quick correction and move on. What I take note of are the folks who either make no effort to try or folks who deliberately refuse to use singular they for me. Someone who is trying and getting it wrong sometimes is someone who is trying to support me, which I always appreciate. Just don't be obsequious when you get it wrong -- I don't need a 3 minute speech about how you really support trans people and you have a trans member of your extended family and how important it is for you and others to get this right. I've had people spend literally 10 minutes on apologies after one slip up.

avmich 7y ago

> I'm just letting you know that's what I'd prefer Do I always need to accommodate your preferences? Some of them could be hard to, like a frequently used feature of the language over which people have vocal disagreement. If I do, can I ask you about reciprocal favors in language expressions of my choice? For some such preferences may look arbitrary, all underlying reasoning notwithstanding. It's surely not a novel thing to have disagreements over language. How in general they are resolved historically?

Pfhreak 7y ago
> Do I always need to accommodate your preferences? Of course not. I might think it's rude or disrespectful if you willfully disregard my preferences, but at no point did I ever insinuate you must take any action. It's no different than requesting a certain nickname or shortened name over one's legal name.
- neotrope 7y ago
  > It's no different than requesting a certain nickname or shortened name over one's legal name. You're asking to be treated more special than everyone else because you're asking for changes in the way people speak, not simply to remember your name (and people have a hard enough time remembering names). It would be similar if I asked to you to avoid a specific set of commonly-used words around me and if you said them, I would perceive it as disrespect. Eventually, people get used to using the right words, but not without effort.
  - progval 7y ago
    You think your misunderstanding is caused by how Pfhrea formulated their first comment. When they say "I use singular they", they meant they want people use this pronoun to refer to themselves instead of he/she, because (I assume) they are non-binary (ie. neither man or woman). They don't expect you to use the singular "they" other than to refer to them. And that's not too hard to remember, you already have to remember whether everyone else is a "he" or a "she"; allowing for "they" is just an extra bit. And if you do forget it, it's ok, just don't do it on purpose.