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Conceivably they could theoretically even spy on your emails with the companies you 've signed up with, including apple's competitors. It could even lead to pot

Conceivably they could theoretically even spy on your emails with the companies you 've signed up with, including apple's competitors. It could even lead to potential legal issues for apple. At least plain email is considered distributed and does not rely on gatekeepers.

scarface74 7y ago
As opposed to Google and Facebook that convinced users to install apps that went around the App Store so they could record everything that you do with your phone or Facebook buying Onava (a VPN provider) with the express purpose of spying on you? Apple could in the future become evil after 40+ years. The other two companies are actively evil.
- buboard 7y ago
  iirc they actually paid those users. And i don't think any company should be trusted. Apple was part of prism and is known to strong-arm their users to stay locked in their ecosystem. This sign in is a good step for security, but i don't think there can be such a thing as corporate-owned privacy.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    “strong arm their users”? Do jack booted thugs come to my door to force me not to buy an Android device? Do you really think most users were aware that they were giving up their privacy? Even if you assume they do, Google broke a contract with Apple by using a developer certification.
    - buboard 7y ago
      Ur arguments are extreme. Apple does lock-in users and developers more than anyone else by enforcing rules and taking away/not implementing features, that's trivial for anyone who has an ios device to see. Agreed though, facebook and google also lock-in users by providing enough free services to users that they don't want to leave. That's a different level of coercion though.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        You still haven’t given concrete examples....
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  Apple is the one that handed over iCloud keys to the Chinese government. Next to Apple, those two are lightweights at being evil. Google was upfront about what their app did and paid their users for that data. It's just like a Nielsen box. I had installed it on an unused tablet myself, tapping the notification to check in weekly, and collecting enough Amazon credit to pay for Prime. https://www.google.com/landing/panelresearch/ https://www.google.com/landing/panelresearch/
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Were they upfront with Apple about their use of the enterprise certificate? Were they clear in telling people “we can record all of your internet activities including messages, banking information”, etc.? Yes Apple stored data on Chinese servers, but your private keys never leave your device. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
    - lern_too_spel 7y ago
      > we can record all of your internet activities including messages, banking information What the app was capable of collecting is different from what the app actually collected, which was clearly specified when signing up. The app is still available in the Play Store, and people still use it because nobody was surprised by what it collects. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.userpanel https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and... > Were they upfront with Apple about their use of the enterprise certificate? Who cares? There's nothing evil about circumventing some arbitrary Apple policy to give users an app that they want. > Yes Apple stored data on Chinese servers, but your private keys never leave your device. Not your private keys but Apple's private keys, which gives the Chinese government unfettered access to everything Chinese users store in iCloud https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/17/apples-icloud-user-data-in-china-is-now-handled-by-a-state-owned-mobile-operator/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/17/apples-icloud-user-data-in.... Worse, the change was applied retroactively to data the users had stored in iCloud prior to the change. No other US tech company comes close in evilness.
      - 7y ago

scarface74 7y ago

As opposed to Google and Facebook that convinced users to install apps that went around the App Store so they could record everything that you do with your phone or Facebook buying Onava (a VPN provider) with the express purpose of spying on you? Apple could in the future become evil after 40+ years. The other two companies are actively evil.

buboard 7y ago
iirc they actually paid those users. And i don't think any company should be trusted. Apple was part of prism and is known to strong-arm their users to stay locked in their ecosystem. This sign in is a good step for security, but i don't think there can be such a thing as corporate-owned privacy.
- scarface74 7y ago
  “strong arm their users”? Do jack booted thugs come to my door to force me not to buy an Android device? Do you really think most users were aware that they were giving up their privacy? Even if you assume they do, Google broke a contract with Apple by using a developer certification.
  - buboard 7y ago
    Ur arguments are extreme. Apple does lock-in users and developers more than anyone else by enforcing rules and taking away/not implementing features, that's trivial for anyone who has an ios device to see. Agreed though, facebook and google also lock-in users by providing enough free services to users that they don't want to leave. That's a different level of coercion though.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      You still haven’t given concrete examples....
lern_too_spel 7y ago
Apple is the one that handed over iCloud keys to the Chinese government. Next to Apple, those two are lightweights at being evil. Google was upfront about what their app did and paid their users for that data. It's just like a Nielsen box. I had installed it on an unused tablet myself, tapping the notification to check in weekly, and collecting enough Amazon credit to pay for Prime. https://www.google.com/landing/panelresearch/ https://www.google.com/landing/panelresearch/
- scarface74 7y ago
  Were they upfront with Apple about their use of the enterprise certificate? Were they clear in telling people “we can record all of your internet activities including messages, banking information”, etc.? Yes Apple stored data on Chinese servers, but your private keys never leave your device. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    > we can record all of your internet activities including messages, banking information What the app was capable of collecting is different from what the app actually collected, which was clearly specified when signing up. The app is still available in the Play Store, and people still use it because nobody was surprised by what it collects. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.userpanel https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and... > Were they upfront with Apple about their use of the enterprise certificate? Who cares? There's nothing evil about circumventing some arbitrary Apple policy to give users an app that they want. > Yes Apple stored data on Chinese servers, but your private keys never leave your device. Not your private keys but Apple's private keys, which gives the Chinese government unfettered access to everything Chinese users store in iCloud https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/17/apples-icloud-user-data-in-china-is-now-handled-by-a-state-owned-mobile-operator/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/17/apples-icloud-user-data-in.... Worse, the change was applied retroactively to data the users had stored in iCloud prior to the change. No other US tech company comes close in evilness.
    - 7y ago