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This is great for learners looking to write their first few lines of code. No more wondering which Python version to install, or having to check the box to have

This is great for learners looking to write their first few lines of code. No more wondering which Python version to install, or having to check the box to have Python added to your path. Now we just need a better bundled IDE. Idle is a horrible first editor, but the added burden of installing a better IDE means it's the one most often used by beginners.

Mister_Snuggles 7y ago
I've been using Visual Studio Code for my Python development lately, it seems like it would be a sensible choice to bundle (or install on demand) with Windows.
- MarcScott 7y ago
  VS Code has too steep a learning curve for someone who has never even written Hello World! Learning to code is hard enough, without having to learn a new software UI, especially if all you've ever done on a computer is browse Facebook and write Word documents. If you want a great example of a beginner's/child's first IDE, have a look at SonicPi
  - pfranz 7y ago
    I remember in college being thrown into Visual Studio. I got things to work basically from a checklist. For the longest time includes and building/linking were mysteries done in the background. I feel like a lot of people were "programming by coincidence." I think I still hold a grudge and prefer the command line to compile (which is its own mess).
  - Mister_Snuggles 7y ago
    There is a bit of a learning curve, but some sensible defaults and bundled extensions could go a long way to help new users along. Perhaps a "playground" mode, similar to what XCode has, would help as well.
electronstudio 7y ago
I recently taught a class[0] on Python programming for children where we used the Mu[1] editor. Mu bundles Python with the editor in a single download so it is very easy for beginners to get started. [0] https://github.com/electronstudio/pygame-zero-book/ https://github.com/electronstudio/pygame-zero-book/ [1] https://codewith.mu/ https://codewith.mu/
- MarcScott 7y ago
  I was involved with the development of Mu (testing and feature suggestions only, not any real development). I think it's probably one of the best IDEs I've seen, aimed at beginners and children. The basic Windows install comes with a load of useful external libraries as well, so beginners don't have to tackle the pip minefield.
Havoc 7y ago
>the added burden of installing a better IDE means it's the one most often used by beginners. Is it? My first reaction seeing Idle was "there's got to be something better" & started googling. I'd imagine most noobs would do the same. That said my first encounter with Eclipse put me off that for life. VS/VS Code on the other hand is a delight.
TylerE 7y ago
What’s funny is that their at least WAS a better option back in the 1.x days.... PyWin? I know activestate shopped it as part of their base install.
chaostheory 7y ago
https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/ https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/ It has a free community version
- bpicolo 7y ago
  Pycharm is way too intimidating if the goal is to get non-programmers to play with a language. Something more like Swift playgrounds would be a better target
  - chaostheory 7y ago
    Does that exist for python?

Mister_Snuggles 7y ago

I've been using Visual Studio Code for my Python development lately, it seems like it would be a sensible choice to bundle (or install on demand) with Windows.

MarcScott 7y ago
VS Code has too steep a learning curve for someone who has never even written Hello World! Learning to code is hard enough, without having to learn a new software UI, especially if all you've ever done on a computer is browse Facebook and write Word documents. If you want a great example of a beginner's/child's first IDE, have a look at SonicPi
- pfranz 7y ago
  I remember in college being thrown into Visual Studio. I got things to work basically from a checklist. For the longest time includes and building/linking were mysteries done in the background. I feel like a lot of people were "programming by coincidence." I think I still hold a grudge and prefer the command line to compile (which is its own mess).
- Mister_Snuggles 7y ago
  There is a bit of a learning curve, but some sensible defaults and bundled extensions could go a long way to help new users along. Perhaps a "playground" mode, similar to what XCode has, would help as well.

electronstudio 7y ago

I recently taught a class[0] on Python programming for children where we used the Mu[1] editor. Mu bundles Python with the editor in a single download so it is very easy for beginners to get started. [0] https://github.com/electronstudio/pygame-zero-book/ https://github.com/electronstudio/pygame-zero-book/ [1] https://codewith.mu/ https://codewith.mu/

MarcScott 7y ago
I was involved with the development of Mu (testing and feature suggestions only, not any real development). I think it's probably one of the best IDEs I've seen, aimed at beginners and children. The basic Windows install comes with a load of useful external libraries as well, so beginners don't have to tackle the pip minefield.

Havoc 7y ago

>the added burden of installing a better IDE means it's the one most often used by beginners. Is it? My first reaction seeing Idle was "there's got to be something better" & started googling. I'd imagine most noobs would do the same. That said my first encounter with Eclipse put me off that for life. VS/VS Code on the other hand is a delight.

TylerE 7y ago

What’s funny is that their at least WAS a better option back in the 1.x days.... PyWin? I know activestate shopped it as part of their base install.

chaostheory 7y ago

https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/ https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/ It has a free community version

bpicolo 7y ago
Pycharm is way too intimidating if the goal is to get non-programmers to play with a language. Something more like Swift playgrounds would be a better target
- chaostheory 7y ago
  Does that exist for python?