7 ms·

In some states (including NY and CA) electricity is partially deregulated so you can choose from different providers, even though it all goes through the same g

by paulgb 7y ago

In some states (including NY and CA) electricity is partially deregulated so you can choose from different providers, even though it all goes through the same grid. There are actually sales people who go door to door or set up booths to encourage people to switch, usually pitching it as cleaner energy and/or cost-saving.

mc32 7y ago
Thanks for the reply. I only have PG&E. No alternative that I know of, so that sounded off kilter. But glad to know what that is all about.
- cwal37 7y ago
  It's a bit more complicated. The door-to-door thing is retail choice, typically when people talk about "deregulated" electricity markets they're often referring to stuff at the generation/transmission level (wholesale markets), where a regional transmission operator is the balancing authority and offers a variety of market products that utilities and merchant generators participate in. Generally this has been perceived as more efficient than the traditional integrated utility and lowered costs for consumers in general. Since you're on PG&E, you're probably in California ISO's territory[1]. "Retail choice" is the ability of individual households to buy directly from retail suppliers[2], and the history there is a bit spottier and less conclusive. It's not as widespread and participation has actually declined[3]. [1] http://www.caiso.com/Pages/default.aspx http://www.caiso.com/Pages/default.aspx [2] https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy18osti/68993.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy18osti/68993.pdf [3] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37452 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37452
dzhiurgis 7y ago
US really need to deregulate (btw I find this word an oxymoron, but english is not my first language) their ISP's and most countries really need to deregulate their wireless providers. Imagine single shared spectrum easy to setup eSIM, easy to terminate contracts. Unfortunately most countries want your ID nowadays when you sign up for internet...
- delfinom 7y ago
  The problem is its not so easy to share spectrum. In reality you can only have a single transmitter/receiver on a given frequency band in a given area.
  - CamperBob2 7y ago
    The problem is its not so easy to share spectrum. In reality you can only have a single transmitter/receiver on a given frequency band in a given area In reality that hasn't been true for decades, beginning with the initial work on spread-spectrum communications in the WWII timeframe. But the regulatory system has yet to catch up fully with the technology's potential.
    - 420codebro 7y ago
      Using DSSS as a crutch in lieu of careful frequency planning is really short-sighted.
    - madengr 7y ago
      Spread spectrum still has limitations. The more codes you add just brings up the noise floor for everyone else.
      - CamperBob2 7y ago
        What is this "noise floor" you speak of? https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/49yuwx/til_gps_signal_are_so_weak_they_are_actually/ https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/49yuwx/til_gp... The whole idea behind SS and UWB techniques is that the noise floor is under your control, rather than Boltzmann's.
        madengr 7y ago
        You would need PRN codes with zero cross-correlation; no such thing. So when you add more users, they appear as noise in your de-spread bandwidth. Add more users, your noise floor goes up, degrading your SNR. There are optimum codes to use, such and Gold (GPS) and Walsh (IS-95 CDMA), but they still have non-zero cross-correlation, so your users are limited. Still no free lunch.
delfinom 7y ago
Except most of the time they end up being massive scams with the said "cheaper utility" charging you out the ass with horrible termination terms.
discreditable 7y ago
These guys are a big part of why I rarely answer my door anymore.
- millisecond 7y ago
  Had one yelling at me through the home office window the other day. Took me 5 minutes of blowing off his various pitches to get rid of him. So annoying.
- jliptzin 7y ago
  I never open the door unless it is for someone I am expecting, no exceptions whatsoever. It is a textbook case of something that has marginal upside and unlimited downside.
  - mruts 7y ago
    I mean, having someone die on your doorstep because you didn’t help them seems like a large downside to me.
    - pmiller2 7y ago
      Multiply that by the probability of it happening to get the risk, though.
      - mruts 7y ago
        You could make the same argument about helping someone change their tire on the side of the road. Or helping a blind person cross the road. Life is full of risks but constantly worrying about them isn’t worth it, especially if it comes at the expense of actually helping someone who is in danger. If you see someone getting abused or needs help, I think you should do the right thing and try and help them, because everyone helping each other reduces risk for everyone and makes a better society.
        pmiller2 7y ago

by paulgb 7y ago

mc32 7y ago

Thanks for the reply. I only have PG&E. No alternative that I know of, so that sounded off kilter. But glad to know what that is all about.

cwal37 7y ago
It's a bit more complicated. The door-to-door thing is retail choice, typically when people talk about "deregulated" electricity markets they're often referring to stuff at the generation/transmission level (wholesale markets), where a regional transmission operator is the balancing authority and offers a variety of market products that utilities and merchant generators participate in. Generally this has been perceived as more efficient than the traditional integrated utility and lowered costs for consumers in general. Since you're on PG&E, you're probably in California ISO's territory[1]. "Retail choice" is the ability of individual households to buy directly from retail suppliers[2], and the history there is a bit spottier and less conclusive. It's not as widespread and participation has actually declined[3]. [1] http://www.caiso.com/Pages/default.aspx http://www.caiso.com/Pages/default.aspx [2] https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy18osti/68993.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy18osti/68993.pdf [3] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37452 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37452

dzhiurgis 7y ago

US really need to deregulate (btw I find this word an oxymoron, but english is not my first language) their ISP's and most countries really need to deregulate their wireless providers. Imagine single shared spectrum easy to setup eSIM, easy to terminate contracts. Unfortunately most countries want your ID nowadays when you sign up for internet...

delfinom 7y ago
The problem is its not so easy to share spectrum. In reality you can only have a single transmitter/receiver on a given frequency band in a given area.
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  The problem is its not so easy to share spectrum. In reality you can only have a single transmitter/receiver on a given frequency band in a given area In reality that hasn't been true for decades, beginning with the initial work on spread-spectrum communications in the WWII timeframe. But the regulatory system has yet to catch up fully with the technology's potential.
  - 420codebro 7y ago
    Using DSSS as a crutch in lieu of careful frequency planning is really short-sighted.
  - madengr 7y ago
    Spread spectrum still has limitations. The more codes you add just brings up the noise floor for everyone else.
    - CamperBob2 7y ago
      What is this "noise floor" you speak of? https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/49yuwx/til_gps_signal_are_so_weak_they_are_actually/ https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/49yuwx/til_gp... The whole idea behind SS and UWB techniques is that the noise floor is under your control, rather than Boltzmann's.
      - madengr 7y ago
        You would need PRN codes with zero cross-correlation; no such thing. So when you add more users, they appear as noise in your de-spread bandwidth. Add more users, your noise floor goes up, degrading your SNR. There are optimum codes to use, such and Gold (GPS) and Walsh (IS-95 CDMA), but they still have non-zero cross-correlation, so your users are limited. Still no free lunch.

delfinom 7y ago

Except most of the time they end up being massive scams with the said "cheaper utility" charging you out the ass with horrible termination terms.

discreditable 7y ago

These guys are a big part of why I rarely answer my door anymore.

millisecond 7y ago
Had one yelling at me through the home office window the other day. Took me 5 minutes of blowing off his various pitches to get rid of him. So annoying.
jliptzin 7y ago
I never open the door unless it is for someone I am expecting, no exceptions whatsoever. It is a textbook case of something that has marginal upside and unlimited downside.
- mruts 7y ago
  I mean, having someone die on your doorstep because you didn’t help them seems like a large downside to me.
  - pmiller2 7y ago
    Multiply that by the probability of it happening to get the risk, though.
    - mruts 7y ago
      You could make the same argument about helping someone change their tire on the side of the road. Or helping a blind person cross the road. Life is full of risks but constantly worrying about them isn’t worth it, especially if it comes at the expense of actually helping someone who is in danger. If you see someone getting abused or needs help, I think you should do the right thing and try and help them, because everyone helping each other reduces risk for everyone and makes a better society.
      - pmiller2 7y ago