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From Wikipedia: Engineers, as practitioners of engineering, are people who invent, design, analyse, build, and test machines, systems, structures and materials

From Wikipedia: Engineers, as practitioners of engineering, are people who invent, design, analyse, build, and test machines, systems, structures and materials to fulfill objectives and requirements while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety, and cost. If you’re doing that you’re an engineer. Hopefully we are all doing that.

monocasa 7y ago
Unless you're in certain states where engineer is a protected term.
- patagonia 7y ago
  Exactly. I would welcome changes that would bring software engineering to a state where it was a protected term. If someone used that term I could have a high degree of certainty that they would abide by certain standards both professional and ethical. Such as “certain percentage of test coverage” and “certain big-O tolerance” for different project levels. Etc. otherwise I’d write the person off as a coder.
  - fredsir 7y ago
    Different places have different standards for engineers, and any other title. It doesn’t matter that you call yourself an engineer in any case. What matters in some cases are the standards you use; is it licensed by someone or something, or is it something else? That’s what you should be asking. What are the standards used? You can do engineering without following any official standard, and anyone who do engineering is of course an engineer, so yeah, the protected title thing is just meh.
- ghaff 7y ago
  Engineer is not a "protected term" in any US state that I'm aware of. "Professional Engineer" has a specific licensed meaning but, if I have a degree in mechanical engineering I'm pretty sure I can call myself an engineer anywhere in the US without the licensing police coming after me. (Unless, of course, I imply that I'm licensed when I'm not.)
  - wbl 7y ago
    Not Texas iirc.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      As I recall my days in the oil industry, "engineer" was one of the most overused titles. We used to joke about "mud engineers" (reps of the companies that sold the ingredients that made up drilling mud) being, in fact, "mud salesmen." (If you were being generous, they were technicians but they did mostly make recommendations and sell you stuff.)
      - taneq 7y ago
        Heh, on iron ore mine sites we have "hose technicians" whose job is to clean up any spillage with a high pressure hose. There are also jokes about "sanitation engineers" who clean the toilets.
  - nobleach 7y ago
    If you work in a music studio, and you call yourself a sound engineer, no one is going to ask to see your credentials because it's assumed that you engineer sound. The same holds through with software engineering. No one expects you to carry some sort of card. When it comes to structural, or civil engineering, there is a far higher expectation that the things you design are not going to fall down. But we're able to understand this distinction. The idea that we should disallow computer coders/programmers from using the term engineer is not based on reducing confusion...
    - ghaff 7y ago
      >When it comes to structural, or civil engineering, there is a far higher expectation that the things you design are not going to fall down. The big thing is that you need a P.E. in many cases to do things like sign off on drawings for regulators. Some civil engineers, mechanical engineers, etc. have PE's and many don't. In Louisiana, I had business cards with an engineering title and definitely worked as an engineer. At some point, had I remained in the oil business, I'd have gotten a PE because I'd presumably have eventually been in a position where I had approval authority over designs submitted to various government agencies.
fredsir 7y ago
I feel like in areas like software, hardware, electrical, mechanical -construction, there are two descriptors of practitioners and they are at opposite ends; hackers and engineers. At least that’s how I think about myself. Sometimes what I do is hacking together a proof of concept, and sometimes I’m engineering a product. Of course, there is something in the middle, and for software, that is probably “coders” or “programmers”.

monocasa 7y ago

Unless you're in certain states where engineer is a protected term.

patagonia 7y ago
Exactly. I would welcome changes that would bring software engineering to a state where it was a protected term. If someone used that term I could have a high degree of certainty that they would abide by certain standards both professional and ethical. Such as “certain percentage of test coverage” and “certain big-O tolerance” for different project levels. Etc. otherwise I’d write the person off as a coder.
- fredsir 7y ago
  Different places have different standards for engineers, and any other title. It doesn’t matter that you call yourself an engineer in any case. What matters in some cases are the standards you use; is it licensed by someone or something, or is it something else? That’s what you should be asking. What are the standards used? You can do engineering without following any official standard, and anyone who do engineering is of course an engineer, so yeah, the protected title thing is just meh.
ghaff 7y ago
Engineer is not a "protected term" in any US state that I'm aware of. "Professional Engineer" has a specific licensed meaning but, if I have a degree in mechanical engineering I'm pretty sure I can call myself an engineer anywhere in the US without the licensing police coming after me. (Unless, of course, I imply that I'm licensed when I'm not.)
- wbl 7y ago
  Not Texas iirc.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    As I recall my days in the oil industry, "engineer" was one of the most overused titles. We used to joke about "mud engineers" (reps of the companies that sold the ingredients that made up drilling mud) being, in fact, "mud salesmen." (If you were being generous, they were technicians but they did mostly make recommendations and sell you stuff.)
    - taneq 7y ago
      Heh, on iron ore mine sites we have "hose technicians" whose job is to clean up any spillage with a high pressure hose. There are also jokes about "sanitation engineers" who clean the toilets.
- nobleach 7y ago
  If you work in a music studio, and you call yourself a sound engineer, no one is going to ask to see your credentials because it's assumed that you engineer sound. The same holds through with software engineering. No one expects you to carry some sort of card. When it comes to structural, or civil engineering, there is a far higher expectation that the things you design are not going to fall down. But we're able to understand this distinction. The idea that we should disallow computer coders/programmers from using the term engineer is not based on reducing confusion...
  - ghaff 7y ago
    >When it comes to structural, or civil engineering, there is a far higher expectation that the things you design are not going to fall down. The big thing is that you need a P.E. in many cases to do things like sign off on drawings for regulators. Some civil engineers, mechanical engineers, etc. have PE's and many don't. In Louisiana, I had business cards with an engineering title and definitely worked as an engineer. At some point, had I remained in the oil business, I'd have gotten a PE because I'd presumably have eventually been in a position where I had approval authority over designs submitted to various government agencies.

fredsir 7y ago

I feel like in areas like software, hardware, electrical, mechanical -construction, there are two descriptors of practitioners and they are at opposite ends; hackers and engineers. At least that’s how I think about myself. Sometimes what I do is hacking together a proof of concept, and sometimes I’m engineering a product. Of course, there is something in the middle, and for software, that is probably “coders” or “programmers”.