4 ms·

This bothers me. As code continues to eat the world, this is akin to saying “building codes don’t matter”. That is dangerous. And it isn’t professional.

onion2k 7y ago
Experienced developers know when to spend time making sure code is actually good and when a terrible crufty hack is fine. If you think "All code must be perfect" then you're not a pro yet.
- criley2 7y ago
  >If you think "All code must be perfect" then you're not a pro yet Or they're a pro in a very different field than you. When I worked in web development, I was gobsmacked at what professionals considered "good enough to ship". Now that I work in Medical EHR, the standards for 'good enough to ship' when lives could be on the line is very, very, very different. I imagine a NASA engineer creating famously low-defect code or perhaps an engineer creating control systems for a nuclear power plant would similarly look at our medical code and think we too ship far too many hacks and defects.
  - chrisfinazzo 7y ago
    I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but the following should be required reading. I don't want to invoke "we follow orders or people die" (or blow up), but... https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
  - onion2k 7y ago
    People in fields where they write code that has to be proven can still know when it's appropriate to write bad hacky code. If they believe "I write proven code for my EHR system therefore all code must be like that." I would argue they're not pros. Being a professional is knowing how to do your job well. Applying a single heuristic to every problem isn't that.
    - spambucket81 7y ago
      > If you think "All code must be perfect" then you're not a pro yet. > Applying a single heuristic to every problem isn't that. How ironic :)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - chimpburger 7y ago
    That's the point. The context of the code matters. 99% of code is not critical to life. Applying NASA level of rigor to every line of code ever written is an indication of mental disorder (autistic obsession)
- patagonia 7y ago
  I never, ever, said “All code must be beautiful. I never even implied it. Unless there is some general agreement that I am unaware of among architects and builders that building codes exist to make building plans “beautiful”. And about that implied ad hominem. It doesn’t matter if I’m a pro. Building codes allow one to say whether plans conform or do not conform to code. That way you don’t have to be a “pro” to determine whether the plan is up to code. You compare the plan to the code. You didn’t write the code. You don’t need to think the code describes beautiful plans. You just compare.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  And often business owners won't allow you to make that determination alone.
  - levosmetalo 7y ago
    Like in any business area. But in the end, it's their business and their responsibility.
afiori 7y ago
"code doesn't matter" is more like "code beauty doesn't matter", in the same way that beautiful foundations for a building do not matter (or are incidental) to its stability.

onion2k 7y ago

Experienced developers know when to spend time making sure code is actually good and when a terrible crufty hack is fine. If you think "All code must be perfect" then you're not a pro yet.

criley2 7y ago
>If you think "All code must be perfect" then you're not a pro yet Or they're a pro in a very different field than you. When I worked in web development, I was gobsmacked at what professionals considered "good enough to ship". Now that I work in Medical EHR, the standards for 'good enough to ship' when lives could be on the line is very, very, very different. I imagine a NASA engineer creating famously low-defect code or perhaps an engineer creating control systems for a nuclear power plant would similarly look at our medical code and think we too ship far too many hacks and defects.
- chrisfinazzo 7y ago
  I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but the following should be required reading. I don't want to invoke "we follow orders or people die" (or blow up), but... https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
- onion2k 7y ago
  People in fields where they write code that has to be proven can still know when it's appropriate to write bad hacky code. If they believe "I write proven code for my EHR system therefore all code must be like that." I would argue they're not pros. Being a professional is knowing how to do your job well. Applying a single heuristic to every problem isn't that.
  - spambucket81 7y ago
    > If you think "All code must be perfect" then you're not a pro yet. > Applying a single heuristic to every problem isn't that. How ironic :)
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- chimpburger 7y ago
  That's the point. The context of the code matters. 99% of code is not critical to life. Applying NASA level of rigor to every line of code ever written is an indication of mental disorder (autistic obsession)
patagonia 7y ago
I never, ever, said “All code must be beautiful. I never even implied it. Unless there is some general agreement that I am unaware of among architects and builders that building codes exist to make building plans “beautiful”. And about that implied ad hominem. It doesn’t matter if I’m a pro. Building codes allow one to say whether plans conform or do not conform to code. That way you don’t have to be a “pro” to determine whether the plan is up to code. You compare the plan to the code. You didn’t write the code. You don’t need to think the code describes beautiful plans. You just compare.
mixmastamyk 7y ago
And often business owners won't allow you to make that determination alone.
- levosmetalo 7y ago
  Like in any business area. But in the end, it's their business and their responsibility.

afiori 7y ago

"code doesn't matter" is more like "code beauty doesn't matter", in the same way that beautiful foundations for a building do not matter (or are incidental) to its stability.